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Branden Robinson" To: John Gardner Cc: Dave Kemper , Vincent Lefevre , linux-man@vger.kernel.org, groff@gnu.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] nextup.3: minor improvements Message-ID: <20240809061900.yxo7uncxwt47pbms@illithid> References: <20240807105617.GH3221@qaa.vinc17.org> <20240808025636.GE3086@qaa.vinc17.org> <20240808121603.fatotzqmtpbf2jez@illithid> <20240808125838.GD2669@cventin.lip.ens-lyon.fr> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rzxo7a3yp7munzzw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --rzxo7a3yp7munzzw Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [PATCH] nextup.3: minor improvements MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi John, At 2024-08-09T15:53:30+1000, John Gardner wrote: > Hi Vincent, Not to horn in, but I think I'm better situated to venture opinions or background on implementation decisions taken in groff than Vincent is. > So ideally, the fallback for "=B10" should be "+0 or -0", which is > > much more readable and less ambiguous than "+-0" or "+/-0". >=20 > For approximating =B1 in ASCII, is there some reason \z_+0 hasn't been > considered? You anticipated the answer. > I'm asking earnestly, as I'm primed to assume overstriking hacks have > already been ruled out (pun intended) as a fallback. \z _is_ an overstriking hack. =46rom groff's Texinfo manual (slightly altered): -- Escape sequence: \o'abc...' Overstrike the glyphs of characters A, B, C, ...; the glyphs are centered, written, and the drawing position advanced by the widest of the glyphs. -- Escape sequence: \zc Format the character C with zero width; that is, without advancing the drawing position. Use '\z' to overstrike glyphs aligned to their left edges, in contrast to '\o''s centering. All of the terminal output devices groff supports lack overstriking support. Resolving (waiting on me) is a prerequisite to doing anything about that. We would also need a new "DESC" file keyword to declare overstriking support in output devices, and a way to query this parameter from the GNU troff language.[1] (This would also be useful for Tektronix 4014 support.) The enthusiastic aficionados of the Western Electric/Teletype Corporation Model 37, including (it would seem) many less(1) users, could then run wild with TERM=3Dtty37. tty37|model 37 teletype, OTbs, hc, os, xon, bel=3D^G, cr=3D\r, cub1=3D^H, cud1=3D\n, cuu1=3D\E7, hd=3D\E9, hu= =3D\E8, ind=3D\n, I'm open to correction by Vincent or anyone else. :) Regards, Branden [1] Straw man: A. A new keyword "overstrike" or "has-overstriking" would be recognized by libdriver and/or libgroff. (In practice, only grotty(1) would need to bother checking for it; any driver for a typesetter can assume that overstriking is possible.) B. A new conditional expression operator, "T", would take a delimited argument naming an output device capability. So you might have something like this: =2Eie T'has-overstriking' .fchar \[+-] \o'_+' =2Eel .fchar \[+-] +/\- The feature window for groff 1.24 is closing (maybe in a month?), though I still want to get #63583 landed before freezing the formatter, even though it's strictly just an output driver change, on the off chance that I _have_ to change something in the formatter to support it, and because Lennart Jablonka has demonstrated the patience of a saint (as have Deri James and TANAKA Takuji_). --rzxo7a3yp7munzzw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEh3PWHWjjDgcrENwa0Z6cfXEmbc4FAma1tMoACgkQ0Z6cfXEm bc58ERAAmCk3Fnsun5Cg9t8Z1Qd/S9PR3ZiZGhPdzKOU82J42qGnoChwpldYl/qO 7xH0kViR9v0nCcqHgncRThT7OnYMXWJMBZVRN+M/RBSnk19a8nndSFbk8HfM20Yl fWMi2KxkfTkk2D65CQNr1Om6iIEKxXmbKNAV4XEu++cPfq9Vfh+NRfGOIbJ0bJWJ DLDGACCUqfKNwh+Ps+v+K1TdP3XbzZRAIjhagnoVrGFpgNWKF9+GFH74hjxm8Iox /0TejfRkA0I97Pze+0vqykHkN7NUS1cVthXbDiJXNHhxn3auSeb2n1j7OUGvSLMv JXNmG7K1wjRnuazrBr+X5oBGEk6PtsYacgAojghB3awwOjde8nWj+/H9qFgn7GYr ykZvD8B4gD3J3V+YoMz76i5iRyvD+L/raKhT4g3A4PicS06n3oFt71IKcFX8eAB7 2d5zwUiH/JhJgpxU+xAT/KvPmAKofLQU3YTGKILB63lbBhDZdatkzkV3bs1/FNIH /gEEFNkGp8xVAtrFPNab1H+vZ2pdrZr6ZmyOhbg7Kd7J0W1qc8+nFVKexIBSGN7D zEG7mwBAlaIbb2+XCaOsDyfwDqB0+4c2a0ZdZxDZRtpbnnXP8uZgX3rvo4ClofKS Dj+TYGYIc+8oLSBM5rBgW8/s06I3W2nMXSNt7r7unJGIpw6ibag= =EPEA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rzxo7a3yp7munzzw--