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Branden Robinson" , Alejandro Colomar Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org, Collin Funk , Sam James References: <4599445186b3e659166f5c73f682467703396e9e.1760543375.git.alx@kernel.org> <1924e1ed-bb96-4a08-a47e-8e77857fa431@redhat.com> <20251015165624.2xm73mgtymbwil6y@illithid> <20251015192422.5ytbfcvpfr42c2ad@illithid> From: Carlos O'Donell Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=carlos@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFef5BoBEACvJ15QMMZh4stKHbz0rs78XsOdxuug37dumTx6ngrDCwZ61k7nHQ+uxLuo QvLSc6YJGBEfiNFbs1hvhRFNR7xJbzRYmin7kJZZ/06fH2cgTkQhN0mRBP8KsKKT+7SvvBL7 85ZfAhArWf5m5Tl0CktZ8yoG8g9dM4SgdvdSdzZUaWBVHc6TjdAb9YEQ1/jpyfHsQp+PWLuQ ZI8nZUm+I3IBDLkbbuJVQklKzpT1b8yxVSsHCyIPFRqDDUjPL5G4WnUVy529OzfrciBvHdxG sYYDV8FX7fv6V/S3eL6qmZbObivIbLD2NbeDqw6vNpr+aehEwgwNbMVuVfH1PVHJV8Qkgxg4 PqPgQC7GbIhxxYroGbLJCQ41j25M+oqCO/XW/FUu/9x0vY5w0RsZFhlmSP5lBDcaiy3SUgp3 MSTePGuxpPlLVMePxKvabSS7EErLKlrAEmDgnUYYdPqGCefA+5N9Rn2JPfP7SoQEp2pHhEyM 6Xg9x7TJ+JNuDowQCgwussmeDt2ZUeMl3s1f6/XePfTd3l8c8Yn5Fc8reRa28dFANU6oXiZf 7/h3iQXPg81BsLMJK3aA/nyajRrNxL8dHIx7BjKX0/gxpOozlUHZHl73KhAvrBRaqLrr2tIP LkKrf3d7wdz4llg4NAGIU4ERdTTne1QAwS6x2tNa9GO9tXGPawARAQABzSpDYXJsb3MgTydE b25lbGwgKFdvcmspIDxjYXJsb3NAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZUEEwEIAD8CGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUI AgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAFiEEcnNUKzmWLfeymZMUFnkrTqJTQPgFAmiCl2sFCRLD5s0ACgkQ FnkrTqJTQPjADA/9EtX1AuwVtpdGqaAqaW3lrOPSqJk5NiI3LiZQFpgVOrMs9VF1BEOGpv2h Cy54VjgUGYX4YnnoocC9FCmUkVqUPPkNJr3iElNJF3oAU/MtLCZCDxeJQY8vRRh4idpc61CO EnE4bl7nFnPiK1YzZhN1nvdIqvKXkzfFPdHUyejoFso3qX1eMfBf7GciPwT9gjIDovUwHN6n 0qsYPxl/eFKleN2hPLDfrucfs/398zAbL5N0EVwrmtG4OZeV6SyN6HiSy7knLW9bg7TMvN8P vvEAJ5CbpgEW90JMGAqb10VAjs2vZehXh+gEqVSAfEjT6rVWZBzUzYCl89eaN+usMDIi7NN0 CqIVv6NKH0dIswYC8J5hPeeV2q52d2s1g8NzJHL/3s7Hc+ot10DsOeoJA2bXhuH3LCveQHzs 7Pi0Pm9olLEVVfoo0E2K+oYzb1t1qHBPiR9zcccW7sCFZhDjVtBbFdXXp+bQ+3tqiveMttUB NPKl5AFDoa/0Uc2L7piGQ0fqUaHT24BmOGmlEUUWueqFbln0033t1L02i8lPAMo4Fu1k1akP 3s0x/e/TOaKY9qJb7h5rFe130HrNQS2TzOSKCjaKmCvRxlDRz8xYdVnEmlTvIeG38apgTNJ+ moD6aE3qj81BqD1LaR7Dfw07F1TPKbtzswaB+al/iWsK8uOl6P7OwU0EV5/kGgEQAKvTJke+ QSjATmz11ALKle/SSEpUwL5QOpt3xomEATcYAamww0HADfGTKdUR+aWgOK3vqu6Sicr1zbuZ jHCs2GaIgRoqh1HKVgCmaJYjizvidHluqrox6qqc9PG0bWb0f5xGQw+X2z+bEinzv4qaep1G 1OuYgvG49OpHTgZMiJq9ncHCxkD2VEJKgMywGJ4Agdl+NWVn0T7w6J+/5QmBIE8hh4NzpYfr xzWCJ9iZ3skG4zBGB4YEacc3+oeEoybc10h6tqhQNrtIiSRJH+SUJvOiNH8oMXPLAjfFVy3d 4BOgyxJhE0UhmQIQHMJxCBw81fQD10d0dcru0rAIEldEpt2UXqOr0rOALDievMF/2BKQiOA7 PbMC3/dwuNHDlClQzdjil8O7UsIgf3IMFaIbQoUEvjlgf5cm9a94gWABcfI1xadAq9vcIB5v +9fM71xDgdELnZThTd8LByrG99ExVMcG2PZYXJllVDQDZqYA1PjD9e0yHq5whJi3BrZgwDaL 5vYZEb1EMyH+BQLO3Zw/Caj8W6mooGHgNveRQ1g9FYn3NUp7UvS22Zt/KW4pCpbgkQZefxup KO6QVNwwggV44cTQ37z5onGbNPD8+2k2mmC0OEtGBkj+VH39tRk+uLOcuXlGNSVk3xOyxni0 Nk9M0GvTvPKoah9gkvL/+AofN/31ABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQRyc1QrOZYt97KZkxQW eStOolNA+AUCaIKXfAUJEsPm4gAKCRAWeStOolNA+B0WEACEIb+2+irwJzvzwVKha7oB5Dub GCvnHLvvXShYDoHzvajTnLTULWAepp05NiAxI8cP9QNpmj8PPzh1eJ4A53vXogWftATT9N7V WEAqVLo3wYAILfnzIOxr5qro148eY++pLMVxHhqrbol4D0CBG+WSAUZdAhK3hKeuA91sUjGa iSpwnihXhegHzeFcRgyaC+NhQsj8EoUpdSQtlmea5FxcV0jxiAdPS/8TvBsalMHNQTqOBr+Q eyGauXNrS3wT7qVbwNRVdRPHC61qR6RH1TPHAPorZ5p/XQisuxyLXDOJZR0yCsxvqoRWDTJu fb8xLrfLxy/LqtE5JNzG1OJL1Bbu9wwiXTkTyj82Zg1KmrDSdSZUvGa3Q7kk5dG38Iel8LEF a/Ri/cYKhk7XjJ8xHBMB6KCJueItjyv2qG7vokhxm8ep0XQNVR+rIKVJH60TKIKonLXNYfK/ znfxUttwFIjjLso6WPHxRjPr1ot1AbgDbuFspRbG7mR2H20ZLjgLPWWAsiHfjyktQ7Dk0hjv r0uSJR1R7X5Cdh3uJCl02Rp1jTZNBDWGVdxA8MSY1ej0yOO+VI8OukA75K0u72wvJD4Dg+Sq 6mzR3XVZmF7FAZNTSV+1GCekJlnCSp4M8HItrojuEtrdH8Ba4WWxK+cIKejqzhwKFpQYBLg9 m/A+1AHg4g== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: <20251015192422.5ytbfcvpfr42c2ad@illithid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10/15/25 3:24 PM, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > Hi Alex, >> Let's consider again the case that AI is a fancy version of a chat >> with Jia Tan. Should we trust contributions where Jia Tan has >> influenced in any way? I strongly believe that we shouldn't. > > I don't think the Jia Tan scenario is a useful litmus test. Agreed. The attack vector of "indirect influence" is very hard to both carry out and successfully exploit. One mitigation is to ask for at least one different human reviewer. That person reads the change and understands what it does and the intent behind the change. As Collin and Sam can attest that's what we're doing in glibc with our consensus and Reviewed-by: policy (and cost of compliance applies [1] since we're stalling at ~60% review of all changes). Even then an indirect influence attack could cause us to accept a seemingly innocuous change in behaviour within the norms of the standard that impacts a downstream application that is actually the attack target. The only defense against this is the continuous integration efforts by various distributions to place brand new component builds continuously into testing in the hopes that one of them exercises the same API in the same non-conforming way e.g. Hyrum's law [2] but applied to testing. Then we get a report and fix the issue quickly. The solution is more humans, trust, and relationship building. -- Cheers, Carlos. [1] Maxim: Cost of compliance approaches infinity as compliance approaches 100%. [2] https://www.hyrumslaw.com/