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[2001:8b0:bf73:93f7::51bb:e332]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-47fd45a0ae0sm34240204f8f.33.2026.08.03.06.42.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 03 Aug 2026 06:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jsm28 (helo=localhost) by digraph.polyomino.org.uk with local-esmtp (Exim 4.98.2) (envelope-from ) id 1wqsw3-00000000rt7-30fI; Mon, 03 Aug 2026 13:42:31 +0000 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2026 13:42:31 +0000 (UTC) From: Joseph Myers To: Alejandro Colomar cc: "G. Branden Robinson" , Sam James , linux-man@vger.kernel.org, Keith Bostic , Mark Harris , Nevin Liber , JeanHeyd Meneide , Christopher Bazley , "Serge E. Hallyn" , Iker Pedrosa , "Evgeny Grin (Karlson2k)" , Kees Cook , bug-gnulib@gnu.org, libc-alpha@sourceware.org, Douglas McIlroy Subject: Re: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82eff373-3460-3cff-4ed5-0a04b4fe4fad@redhat.com> References: <784288e704183a4297aeaa3d13af8edab18bc1ea.1785532392.git.alx@kernel.org> <20260731215122.4p4aepsbgeoibx74@illithid> <87a4r6es6k.fsf@gentoo.org> <87y0epdhxp.fsf@gentoo.org> <87zez5bz49.fsf@gentoo.org> <20260801213421.7e3wvyjwmlwxzd55@illithid> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 2 Aug 2026, Alejandro Colomar wrote: > Joseph was concerned that this documentation would conflict with many > documents saying that is deprecated. Luckily, I've never > seen such a document, so we can assume they don't exist (unless people > show evidence). I'll dismiss his negative vote, since his technical > reasons are incorrect. Also, is undoubtedly more portable > than a new . The glibc manual nowhere mentions . That's pretty clear evidence the header is a relic of the days when glibc just took any interface some 1980s Unix had rather than trying to have a cleaner API of more current relevance. My main concern, in any case, is that man-pages should describe the world as it is, not as you'd like it to be; they should follow, not lead, on any proposed changes; they should promote portable coding practices and using existing standard interfaces in the absence of broad consensus (not just your opinion; not just an opinion based on dismissing all the views against) of a clear technical deficiency in those interfaces; that anyone advocating for an interface change should avoid using man-pages as part of that advocacy, only eventually updating it after the debate has concluded once there is consensus on what the conclusion of the debate was but ensuring the man-pages don't take any one side of the debate before then. I suggest we need to figure out how to generate man pages from the glibc manual so that people who prefer documentation in that format can have documentation of glibc interfaces that's maintained by a proper consensual process rather than following one person's opinion. -- Joseph S. Myers josmyers@redhat.com