[patch] standards.7: Added more references

[patch] standards.7: Added more references

[Alfie]

Hi guys,

I have added more references to standards.7 (Version 3.22). IMHO, these
books are the definitive guides in their subject matter.

Alfie

-- 8< --

diff --git a/man7/standards.7 b/man7/standards.7
index 1c7dbdd..a8c8e90 100644
--- a/man7/standards.7
+++ b/man7/standards.7
@@ -130,13 +130,18 @@ For further information, see
 by Bill O. Gallmeister (O'Reilly & Associates, Inc. ISBN 1-56592-074-0).
 .TP
 .B POSIX.1c
-IEEE Std 1003.1c-1995 describing the POSIX threads interfaces.
+IEEE Std 1003.1c-1995 describing the POSIX threads interfaces. For further
+information, see "Programming with POSIX Threads" by David R. Butenhof
+(Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-201-63392-2).
 .TP
 .B POSIX.1d
 IEEE Std 1003.1c-1999 describing additional real-time extensions.
 .TP
 .B POSIX.1g
-IEEE Std 1003.1g-2000 describing networking APIs (including sockets).
+IEEE Std 1003.1g-2000 describing networking APIs (including sockets). For
+further information, see "UNIX Network Programming: Networking APIs: Sockets
+and XTI; Volume 1" by W. Richard Stevens (Prentice-Hall, Inc. ISBN
+0-13-490012-X).
 .TP
 .B POSIX.1j
 IEEE Std 1003.1j-2000 describing advanced real-time extensions.
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Re: [patch] standards.7: Added more references

[Andi Kleen]

"Alfie" <alfie-pV9j36CBp5Q-XMD5yJDbdMReXY1tMh2IBg@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Hi guys,
>
> I have added more references to standards.7 (Version 3.22). IMHO, these
> books are the definitive guides in their subject matter.

I don't think referencing the old Stephens in a Linux manpage
is a good idea. He describes original BSD sockets, which at times is quite
different from Linux or POSIX sockets.

-Andi

-- 
ak-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org -- Speaking for myself only.

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Re: [patch] standards.7: Added more references

[Michael Kerrisk]

Hi Alfie,

On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Alfie <alfie-pV9j36CBp5Q@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I have added more references to standards.7 (Version 3.22). IMHO, these
> books are the definitive guides in their subject matter.

I don't doubt that these are the best currently available books on
their subject matter, but in the end, I don't think standards(7)
should act as a bibliography.

Yes, I know there are a few books listed there already, and, yes, I
wrote the page.

But my inclination would be to take the references to Gallmeister and
Lewine out (both now rather dated), rather than add more references.
And in fact, that is what I've done. (Adding more books to
standards(7) would only lead me into temptation one day in the
future.)

So, sorry -- but I won't take this patch.

Cheers,

Michael

> -- 8< --
>
> diff --git a/man7/standards.7 b/man7/standards.7
> index 1c7dbdd..a8c8e90 100644
> --- a/man7/standards.7
> +++ b/man7/standards.7
> @@ -130,13 +130,18 @@ For further information, see
>  by Bill O. Gallmeister (O'Reilly & Associates, Inc. ISBN 1-56592-074-0).
>  .TP
>  .B POSIX.1c
> -IEEE Std 1003.1c-1995 describing the POSIX threads interfaces.
> +IEEE Std 1003.1c-1995 describing the POSIX threads interfaces. For further
> +information, see "Programming with POSIX Threads" by David R. Butenhof
> +(Addison-Wesley. ISBN 0-201-63392-2).
>  .TP
>  .B POSIX.1d
>  IEEE Std 1003.1c-1999 describing additional real-time extensions.
>  .TP
>  .B POSIX.1g
> -IEEE Std 1003.1g-2000 describing networking APIs (including sockets).
> +IEEE Std 1003.1g-2000 describing networking APIs (including sockets). For
> +further information, see "UNIX Network Programming: Networking APIs: Sockets
> +and XTI; Volume 1" by W. Richard Stevens (Prentice-Hall, Inc. ISBN
> +0-13-490012-X).
>  .TP
>  .B POSIX.1j
>  IEEE Std 1003.1j-2000 describing advanced real-time extensions.
>



-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git
man-pages online: http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online_pages.html
Found a bug? http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/reporting_bugs.html
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Re: [patch] standards.7: Added more references

[Alfie John]

Hey,

> I don't doubt that these are the best currently available books on
> their subject matter, but in the end, I don't think standards(7)
> should act as a bibliography.

> But my inclination would be to take the references to Gallmeister and
> Lewine out (both now rather dated), rather than add more references.
> And in fact, that is what I've done. (Adding more books to
> standards(7) would only lead me into temptation one day in the
> future.)

Are you sure that is the best thing to do? Man pages are there to help the
reader get a better picture. The more information the better I would have
thought.

What if somebody were to look at standards(7) and wanted to know more
information? Instead of going to what people considered the best material
available (be it books, websites etc), they would instead waste their time
searching and maybe getting inferior or incorrect information. This leads
to floods of questions to forums, IRC and mailing lists. And I'm sure one
common response to these type of questions is going to be "if you want
more info, the best place is X book"!

It would cut out the middle man if references were there from the
beginning :)

> So, sorry -- but I won't take this patch.

No problem. I'm just trying to help out people who are in the same boat as
me -- people wanting to know where the best place to find things are.
Maybe a man page called "unix-references", "unix-books" or
"programming-books" would be a better option.

Alfie
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Re: [patch] standards.7: Added more references

[Michael Kerrisk]

Hi Alfie,

On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 12:13 AM, Alfie John <alfie-pV9j36CBp5Q@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hey,
>
>> I don't doubt that these are the best currently available books on
>> their subject matter, but in the end, I don't think standards(7)
>> should act as a bibliography.
>
>> But my inclination would be to take the references to Gallmeister and
>> Lewine out (both now rather dated), rather than add more references.
>> And in fact, that is what I've done. (Adding more books to
>> standards(7) would only lead me into temptation one day in the
>> future.)
>
> Are you sure that is the best thing to do? Man pages are there to help the
> reader get a better picture. The more information the better I would have
> thought.
>
> What if somebody were to look at standards(7) and wanted to know more
> information? Instead of going to what people considered the best material
> available (be it books, websites etc), they would instead waste their time
> searching and maybe getting inferior or incorrect information. This leads
> to floods of questions to forums, IRC and mailing lists. And I'm sure one
> common response to these type of questions is going to be "if you want
> more info, the best place is X book"!

To which my answer would be: look at a search engine, or an online bookstore.

I don't think it is the place of man pages to adjudicate on what are
the "best" books.

> It would cut out the middle man if references were there from the
> beginning :)
>
>> So, sorry -- but I won't take this patch.
>
> No problem. I'm just trying to help out people who are in the same boat as
> me -- people wanting to know where the best place to find things are.
> Maybe a man page called "unix-references", "unix-books" or
> "programming-books" would be a better option.

Or maybe looking somewhere else than man pages is best ;-).

Cheers,

Michael


-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git
man-pages online: http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online_pages.html
Found a bug? http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/reporting_bugs.html
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Re: [patch] standards.7: Added more references

[Alfie John]

Hey again,

On Tue, June 2, 2009 2:14 pm, Michael Kerrisk wrote:
>> No problem. I'm just trying to help out people who are in the same boat
>> as
>> me -- people wanting to know where the best place to find things are.
>> Maybe a man page called "unix-references", "unix-books" or
>> "programming-books" would be a better option.
>
> Or maybe looking somewhere else than man pages is best ;-).

lol. Good point.

Alfie
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