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From: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
To: Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos <nmav-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: mtk.manpages-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org,
	linux-man-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	tytso-3s7WtUTddSA@public.gmane.org,
	Laurent Georget
	<laurent.georget-vbcOdlJ0SulGWvitb5QawA@public.gmane.org>,
	George Spelvin <linux-gpGsJRJZ3PBBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Update the random(4) documentation towards a more accurate view on /dev/urandom
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 09:21:28 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <8a5e82db-6f8a-2426-4a68-feab205bca57@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1476952646.2522.10.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>

[Dropping a couple of other people into CC who may be able / willing
to review.]

Folks, I'd really appreciate some review help here!

Cheers,

Michael

On 10/20/2016 10:37 AM, Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos wrote:
> On Mon, 2016-08-01 at 13:48 +0200, Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos wrote:
>> > This is an updated patch reflecting the recent discussion in linux-
>> > crypto:
>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-crypto-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org/msg20400.html
> Hi,
>  I'm resending the patch with few typo fixes, and adding Ted in CC for
> review. Ted would you like to review this patch for the random(4)
> manpage?
> 
> regards,
> Nikos
> 
> 
> 0001-Update-the-random-4-documentation-towards-a-more-acc.patch
> 
> 
> From 7952cf6bbabf36a4be50a3ba953278077f7b5157 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos <nmav-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 09:08:14 +0200
> Subject: [PATCH] Update the random(4) documentation towards a more accurate
>  view on /dev/urandom
> 
> This documents the "property" of /dev/urandom of being able to serve numbers
> prior to pool being initialized, and removes any suggested usages of /dev/random
> which are disputable (i.e., one-time pad).
> Document the fact /dev/random is a legacy interface and only suitable for
> applications which can afford indeterminate delays since very few applications
> can do so.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos <nmav-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
> ---
>  man4/random.4 | 51 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++-------------------------
>  1 file changed, 26 insertions(+), 25 deletions(-)
> 
> diff --git a/man4/random.4 b/man4/random.4
> index b67c46f..c7afaf4 100644
> --- a/man4/random.4
> +++ b/man4/random.4
> @@ -13,8 +13,9 @@
>  .\" 2004-04-08, AEB, Improved description of read from /dev/urandom
>  .\" 2008-06-20, George Spelvin <linux-gpGsJRJZ3PBBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>,
>  .\"             Matt Mackall <mpm-VDJrAJ4Gl5ZBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
> -.\"     Add a Usage subsection that recommends most users to use
> -.\"     /dev/urandom, and emphasizes parsimonious usage of /dev/random.
> +.\" 2016-10-20, Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos <nmav-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
> +.\"     Mention that /dev/random is a legacy interface and removed suggested
> +.\"     uses of /dev/random.
>  .\"
>  .TH RANDOM 4 2016-10-08 "Linux" "Linux Programmer's Manual"
>  .SH NAME
> @@ -37,11 +38,22 @@ The generator also keeps an estimate of the
>  number of bits of noise in the entropy pool.
>  From this entropy pool random numbers are created.
>  .LP
> -When read, the \fI/dev/random\fP device will return random bytes
> -only within the estimated number of bits of noise in the entropy
> -pool.
> -\fI/dev/random\fP should be suitable for uses that need very
> -high quality randomness such as one-time pad or key generation.
> +When read, the \fI/dev/urandom\fP device return random bytes using a pseudorandom 
> +number generator seeded from the entropy pool. That operation is
> +non-blocking. When used during early boot time, this device may return
> +data prior to the entropy pool being initialized.
> +If this is of concern in your application, use
> +.BR getrandom(2)
> +or \fI/dev/random\fP instead.
> +
> +.LP
> +The \fI/dev/random\fP device is a legacy interface which dates back to
> +a time where the cryptographic primitives used in the implementation
> +were not widely trusted. It will return random bytes
> +only within the estimated number of bits of fresh noise in the entropy
> +pool, blocking if necessary.
> +\fI/dev/random\fP is suitable for applications that need very
> +high quality randomness, and can afford indeterminate delays.
>  When the entropy pool is empty, reads from \fI/dev/random\fP will block
>  until additional environmental noise is gathered.
>  If
> @@ -60,18 +72,8 @@ will return -1 and
>  .I errno
>  will be set to
>  .BR EAGAIN .
> -.LP
> -A read from the \fI/dev/urandom\fP device will not block
> -waiting for more entropy.
> -If there is not sufficient entropy, a pseudorandom number generator is used
> -to create the requested bytes.
> -As a result, in this case the returned values are theoretically vulnerable to a
> -cryptographic attack on the algorithms used by the driver.
> -Knowledge of how to do this is not available in the current unclassified
> -literature, but it is theoretically possible that such an attack may
> -exist.
> -If this is a concern in your application, use \fI/dev/random\fP
> -instead.
> +
> +The flag
>  .B O_NONBLOCK
>  has no effect when opening
>  .IR /dev/urandom .
> @@ -82,6 +84,8 @@ for the device
>  signals will not be handled until after the requested random bytes
>  have been generated.
>  
> +
> +
>  Since Linux 3.16,
>  .\" commit 79a8468747c5f95ed3d5ce8376a3e82e0c5857fc
>  a
> @@ -104,14 +108,11 @@ This means that it will impact the contents
>  read from both files, but it will not make reads from
>  \fI/dev/random\fP faster.
>  .SS Usage
> -If you are unsure about whether you should use
> +The 
>  .IR /dev/random
> -or
> +interface is considered a legacy interface, and 
>  .IR /dev/urandom ,
> -then probably you want to use the latter.
> -As a general rule,
> -.IR /dev/urandom
> -should be used for everything except long-lived GPG/SSL/SSH keys.
> +is recommended for general use.
>  
>  If a seed file is saved across reboots as recommended below (all major
>  Linux distributions have done this since 2000 at least), the output is
> -- 2.7.4
> 


-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-10-21  7:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-04-25  8:48 [PATCH] Update the random(4) documentation towards a more accurate view on /dev/urandom Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found] ` <1461574090.32558.45.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-04-25 15:46   ` George Spelvin
     [not found]     ` <20160425154605.7445.qmail-HzZAx2gCgqrSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
2016-04-26 14:46       ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found]         ` <1461681983.15804.76.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-04-26 16:58           ` George Spelvin
     [not found]             ` <20160426165847.5804.qmail-HzZAx2gCgqrSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-09 15:26               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                 ` <8a990d27-1fc2-8358-f9d3-c9474d6d8616-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10  8:21                   ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found]                     ` <1478766102.2642.12.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 11:29                       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-08-01 11:48   ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found]     ` <1470052099.2926.6.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-20  8:37       ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found]         ` <1476952646.2522.10.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21  7:21           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) [this message]
     [not found]             ` <8a5e82db-6f8a-2426-4a68-feab205bca57-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 14:07               ` Stephan Mueller
     [not found]                 ` <2402524.TIv9Kdt40z-gNvIQDDl/k7Ia13z/PHSgg@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 14:38                   ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found]                     ` <1477060710.3888.14.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 14:55                       ` Stephan Mueller
2016-10-21 16:33                   ` Theodore Ts'o
     [not found]                     ` <20161021163314.cvhjgr4s7lfzdsve-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 16:50                       ` Stephan Mueller
     [not found]                         ` <4610047.a51zB7LfZj-gNvIQDDl/k7Ia13z/PHSgg@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 17:56                           ` Theodore Ts'o
     [not found]                             ` <20161021175633.5x5mp2xv3wq4ejjf-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2016-10-21 18:00                               ` Stephan Mueller
2016-11-01  9:35               ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found]                 ` <1477992912.3769.22.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-09 14:58                   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-09 15:23           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]             ` <b07fb334-149d-cf65-74f3-1d1951e5981b-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10  8:54               ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found]                 ` <1478768067.2642.23.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10  9:11                   ` Laurent Georget
     [not found]                     ` <3b7ba39b-0434-47ca-7857-257f3c99266b-AyimVQWTEHzsq35pWSNszA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 11:56                       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-10 11:50                   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                     ` <e5c1f87c-aad0-b526-a346-74348a36c2a3-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 11:53                       ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found]                         ` <1478778837.2642.26.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 11:56                           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                             ` <05152136-6943-8ada-3d65-51ef4ce9c1b1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-10 14:19                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-10 14:20                               ` [PATCH] random.4: Improve discussion or urandom, blocking reads, and signals Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                                 ` <4a8c573c-0c19-29d0-248e-74c088968806-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-11 10:28                                   ` Laurent Georget
     [not found]                                     ` <d5eca965-c8b9-51e5-6acb-172e47f85ba0-vbcOdlJ0SulGWvitb5QawA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-11 11:51                                       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-12 12:25                                       ` New random(7) page for review Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                                         ` <cb25213c-a70d-cbf1-6a42-959dcdc1f202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-12 14:03                                           ` Laurent Georget
     [not found]                                             ` <54e6e40c-b840-c773-e739-7faed9664411-AyimVQWTEHzsq35pWSNszA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-15  6:19                                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-13 22:20                                           ` Theodore Ts'o
     [not found]                                             ` <20161113222041.ypnz3sdm3fmjprnn-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-15  6:41                                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-14  8:06                                           ` Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
     [not found]                                             ` <1479110801.2624.2.camel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-15  6:10                                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2016-11-11 16:05                                   ` [PATCH] random.4: Improve discussion or urandom, blocking reads, and signals Theodore Ts'o
     [not found]                                     ` <20161111160514.yrlfteowdz4qar76-AKGzg7BKzIDYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
2016-11-12 10:54                                       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)

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