From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44D06C0032E for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 16:23:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229449AbjJ1QXM (ORCPT ); Sat, 28 Oct 2023 12:23:12 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:58820 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229446AbjJ1QXM (ORCPT ); Sat, 28 Oct 2023 12:23:12 -0400 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (relay.kernel.org [52.25.139.140]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5153EB for ; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E4E0C433C8; Sat, 28 Oct 2023 16:23:06 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1698510187; bh=tm3d/9BHTTixgOlf1zbC7ijq68huzPNpqd3Ec05nJnU=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=pOE2H4YBwMpvoASt22OahxK+N/L67r3r5hWjnhMNgy2L7/N7ueH0Qhs1UptNdEwfd 2TjFXS0LqldBwBR0D58m0IP2dVvzFmCpj+lTalYziLgaO1wJeyc4CtRilbL6+YgFHY wrSfbbKsCmwVfrjiWHEpzt9fKA66v6VOZ0p+AS7yf8uH+ubh3yTY39ndx4aqSJI61a IFXilpqZJtZT5kGTrTCQCbqRFuwL6zb1xGza50P1saoItjZcN3jZBXI6oiRguO/lVy qxEkCIQ0eyX1EZz/CdHyv3Y8gr6ZwFXMxC0BzSYq/RH4Ymw1wLyVWTJ+M8iMfvBMbY 4NmYIPpV7QLlA== Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 18:22:52 +0200 From: Alejandro Colomar To: "G. Branden Robinson" Cc: Muhammad Usama Anjum , kernel@collabora.com, linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: managing tagged paragraphs (was: [PATCH 2/2] ioctl_pagemap_scan: add page for pagemap_scan IOCTL) Message-ID: References: <20231019131252.2368728-1-usama.anjum@collabora.com> <20231019131252.2368728-2-usama.anjum@collabora.com> <20231024024802.e6hfjvfumzc2rbil@illithid> <20231028130714.inrfj5nzbqt25ms3@illithid> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mPBHisLrE5ffBP+x" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20231028130714.inrfj5nzbqt25ms3@illithid> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org --mPBHisLrE5ffBP+x Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 18:22:52 +0200 From: Alejandro Colomar To: "G. Branden Robinson" Cc: Muhammad Usama Anjum , kernel@collabora.com, linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: managing tagged paragraphs (was: [PATCH 2/2] ioctl_pagemap_scan: add page for pagemap_scan IOCTL) Hi Branden, On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 08:07:14AM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > Hi Alex, >=20 > At 2023-10-24T12:40:55+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 09:48:02PM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > > > If one has learned device-independent troff's output language (see > > > groff_out(5)), one can see that the space after the comma is simply > > > discarded. > >=20 > > Hmm, I might use .grout for the similarity with that manual page name. > > ;) >=20 > Yes, I like the terms "trout" and "grout" for the original Kernighan > device-independent troff format and GNU's extended version of it, > respectively. But I have met few other people who do. :) >=20 > > > Good, yes. I see what you're talking about. We can now use > > > ioctl_pagemap_scan(2) as a site for our horrific medical experiments. > > > 3:-) > > >=20 > > > I think this is an instance of the tricky little constraint problem > > > Michael Kerrisk and I discussed almost 3 years ago. > > >=20 > > > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/a79fc055-c7ab-1793-04eb-eb4f678e503= 5@gmail.com/ > >=20 > > Yep, and like Michael, I also dislike the line break. Is there any > > chance that we could make it not break after TP so that it (RS) would > > be usable there? >=20 > The exhibit was roughly this (based on ioctl_pageman_scan(2)): >=20 > .TH foo 2 2023-10-28 "groff test suite" > .TP > .B vec > The address of > .I page_region > array for output. > .IP > .in +4n > .EX > struct page_region { > __u64 start; > __u64 end; > __u64 categories; > }; > .EE > .in > Other text. >=20 > This already formats without a line break after `TP`. I meant to ask if modifying RS's behavior to not break after TP was something you'd consider viable. [...] > > Yup, but anyone new to man(7) will likely be put off by that page. > >=20 > > $ man groff_man_style | wc -l > > 1439 >=20 > Because we don't know your terminal width, that number doesn't > communicate a lot. Huh! I thought I had used the standard width, but it seems I didn't. $ man groff_man_style | wc 1460 10154 81450 Even weirder is that it's not 89 either, which is the size of the terminal when I use half screen. And to crash my brain, I can't even reproduce it with any terminal size: $ MANWIDTH=3D82 man groff_man_style | wc 1442 10152 81154 $ MANWIDTH=3D83 man groff_man_style | wc 1435 10156 80990 > But it is just shy of 20k words in groff 1.23.0. > The "reference" version, groff_man(7), is half as long. $ groff --version GNU groff version 1.23.0.497-e982 >=20 > > If you're just contributing a few paragraphs, you may prefer to learn > > by trial and error (which is a perfectly valid approach, and one that > > I prefer). >=20 > Experimentation is certainly superior to guessing (or assuming). >=20 > > Only when I wanted to learn the more obscure details, or quote > > to someone else, I've read that page (and I haven't read it entirely > > yet!). >=20 > I look forward to your critique from a position of practical experience. Me too. I remember my promise to review it; I'm just very slow; even slower than sloppy recuriters. 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