From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0213FC4332F for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 12:13:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S230434AbjJaMN0 (ORCPT ); Tue, 31 Oct 2023 08:13:26 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:58542 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S230497AbjJaMN0 (ORCPT ); Tue, 31 Oct 2023 08:13:26 -0400 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (relay.kernel.org [52.25.139.140]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9365A2 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 05:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 90456C433C8; Tue, 31 Oct 2023 12:13:20 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1698754401; bh=5Eiy6nREqzi+2i8mDlE3A3nOrPbCBUReYViW7jcpByA=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=MKgwh7KpStwJ1PqdAYYdB+ldW9PmZ3vDpb/gLsH7oY58ljyZQ2Erdx8aIIEeudT2q bzUPvDg2qkZIkH5C7DIdXTjrly754/FBuFoZsZwyNmCQZ1RvUtbXg25hNif6E8sbUx /1t/giLsT/grlEmsDxGG+9YD7lAK4+W2/2uHNWXm+S3/wFEoVXwQ+3gJhCSkmba3TU p5Sg+H6Alil4CEtYF4t/Gm+OwnyZ2nuM8pRAvCn5WIDbdonQRwfqCXW/EPBGgYZrsS shd8DPLT0AwMd8kb6MJvlXBu1DAzBC/NozvXt6Ec+bzBdzkjGbg2tiOH1gYZcUuBSE 9TGvOwxvZILoA== Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 13:13:12 +0100 From: Alejandro Colomar To: Sam James Cc: "G. Branden Robinson" , linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: groff 1.23.0 stability (was: using the TQ macro) Message-ID: References: <20231025141103.savwphtepufpget4@illithid> <20231028131325.vloorrwewruhy4lq@illithid> <87edhbz9jh.fsf@gentoo.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ddNmf8XD0Egt4mPz" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87edhbz9jh.fsf@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org --ddNmf8XD0Egt4mPz Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 13:13:12 +0100 From: Alejandro Colomar To: Sam James Cc: "G. Branden Robinson" , linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: groff 1.23.0 stability (was: using the TQ macro) Hi Sam! On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 04:38:13AM +0000, Sam James wrote: > "G. Branden Robinson" writes: > > At 2023-10-25T17:08:19+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote: > >> BTW, I just checked and Gentoo still doesn't consider 1.23.0 stable > >> enough . :| > > >=20 > Alex, this is based on a misunderstanding of how our process works -- ple= ase > CC me if you have questions or if something looks off in future, so I > can explain/help if required. >=20 > > I don't understand that claim. 1.23.x is as stable as it can be; there > > have been no point releases. Its behavior is not changing based on the > > calendar. >=20 > The standard rule in Gentoo is 30 days after something has been released > before it's considered for "stabilisation". We wait longer for critical > packages like groff to give more time for any reported bugs in "~arch" > (our testing area, which a lot of users participate in). It is generally > not a comment on upstream stability at all. Yep, I understand it's just about your use in combination with other packages in your distribution. What I'm not sure is if by default Gentoo installs the stable packages or the testing ones. If you install by default the stable one, I wouldn't want to force a dependency on a package that you don't yet install by default. >=20 > > I have to assume that there are either changes since 1.22.4 > > documented in NEWS (and if not, that's probably a bug) that they're > > concerned about, or they're worried the broader community hasn't gotten > > enough exposure to it yet. repology.org has been sitting at 64 > > instances of groff 1.23.0 for weeks now; I think pretty much everyone > > who's going to adopt it has done so by now. > > >=20 > ... in this case, the only blockers were really: > * me having https://github.com/Perl/perl5/issues/21239 > in the back of my head (wasn't paying full attention, just knew I had > to go back and read any developments/further comments)=20 >=20 > * needing to look into a reported failure > (https://bugs.gentoo.org/910226) - which looks like it should be fixed > when we update our version of openvswitch (or we backport the patch, > or both) So, if the Linux man-pages forces a dependency of groff-1.23.0, would it be problematic for Gentoo before you declare it stable, or would it be fine? >=20 > > CCing Sam James (the only Gentoo developer I know by name, because he's > > been active some of the same places I have been) in case he can throw > > some light on this. >=20 > Happily! Please feel free to loop me in if you reckon I can give input > on things. >=20 > So, all in all, none of this is a reflection on upstream, just a mix > of: how we do things normally (waiting a bit post-release unless there's > some serious regression in our stable version), waiting a bit longer > because it's a critical package (sometimes 60 days, sometimes a bit > longer), and not getting around to looking at that openvswitch bug yet. Yeah, the quality of groff-1.23.0 is way better than 1.22.4. I'm just worried that forcing distros to use it too early might be detrimental. Cheers, Alex >=20 > I promise I would report any problems if I determined they were in any > way an upstream issue :) >=20 > Thanks for reaching out. >=20 > > > > Regards, > > Branden > > >=20 > best, > sam >=20 --=20 --ddNmf8XD0Egt4mPz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEE6jqH8KTroDDkXfJAnowa+77/2zIFAmVA71gACgkQnowa+77/ 2zK5nw//b6Y41JGG7Dm9Q9uAkkjGqpcCCvHSNrPCfkYHGLql+SWUSLCKJT0LzIpW 7yUs3NXHFa8Oip9Dq32abzL9qlfpPoLumVQe1LV4hGw/6cJJ25oOr6QsECJFMlCy bFlklYn3byR6EVIVsoBPJMCi9uAlXYhTcDBppaGebR93KzSqa2HhQPt1IC5kC7Bg p41ZgxtXyoNeevpSNSJu7c+m6/VTfYeCrrjZdxP775wGon3NyTZ/fX6kk1EANnvY d8EsgaaByIVAXMsH4Tq93+eYjG3ZpBXX+iWpmnQNHKz7ajdUsF81qz9JqyJUVkbR CicQcSWKyaNZyK0pBWLvx+serqPg7NNHxOj+iBg9Vn+C5rckEJ+GXluprfTEKnDj BtGhIw0cknOxOfvVsJncxOx2UZEqK9CobQZuLSUAx3KgUCuDSya2dKK/DlhHjs2r qh4nUd0kwatD+1Bby91azqlGSmDjUTx7Ltz2PGn7VfWXKvaHcepIfrGagOJ8kuYE NLR2CK39+cj5VG1fyl5ww1z+biBL9ADap0nQkeons6kpX/6VB+gEdLaFcWvlJxdc 1jlvvw4KcJloylLStvDNF1InUGfAAKiCyoJQGfI611Z/YovTRa97Gewm9ctRH/N6 2eCFA1XSwcNOtJIQCKKghN83HkEwgiL7jeu4YjS+wRRzXcihhfw= =Xn14 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ddNmf8XD0Egt4mPz--