From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF55321A444 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 2025 11:34:41 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1767094481; cv=none; b=TUZc6JqwhjupwIi/iP9dPX9f4xTR1fRxrKd4GgNIxP0HAJw0gE5a0l1LAvYCzJbiCdRwhyQDYiBSeHBKpoUMu81Wn7BOqRCzuTESd4Ob3AKeYsPAVtYK+7CZYocopUfYogD2GWsMit7eysSOAGRdqi3jLZWM44xZopNft7pR8+o= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1767094481; c=relaxed/simple; bh=tifMc100pkdpkLY669st4ile5eIE38tSi9qv7PjSZl8=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=C8+H4L9CYHDMXAf0XZLVKwgim1X3B/qlkCAoDEmgPCgfr7oDR9gMvyUpommnr+ZbCOAuCXkBdZcdHJO207vISipupl5OCDG6IAo84KpNf388E5HVV7jAXm6zlXvvxhv3UvfN3tRMVhBafZvpyN1e6L93X2mwB+Ay7SD4Hj3+PVo= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=f5pKSRxj; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="f5pKSRxj" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4930BC4CEFB; Tue, 30 Dec 2025 11:34:40 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1767094481; bh=tifMc100pkdpkLY669st4ile5eIE38tSi9qv7PjSZl8=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=f5pKSRxjBnX0r76NDagI/oeWTqVk20I50sb2G5PNqWN2xBIqkovg4lm20S5mF9AEe //agTuwRy0Iw4N5AZbta+jmOMNovhq3BSC9sTm5rFRMkFpIJY49hLj2zGKbIpoAtlE lYuWN8DADAWZHctD7BkdGAgaoLtGbYP7T65/7VyF4xTAACipGRkKmGTN3oq/aDT85d 0OyqX1AHVTCbZy2EAbra7ZetxYpVe55jtwNUgkfi93qvP4tvp6iUOgg1KZkU/CNSX6 UpLMZztkpzBzyV63A5f725rUa3cwlhK8PCJC2tFlNSGZnawOrRiI6Oz+DFf5AeWh8l 3gjr9Jk47//TQ== Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2025 12:34:37 +0100 From: Alejandro Colomar To: "G. Branden Robinson" Cc: Collin Funk , Seth McDonald , linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 2/4] sys/man2/sysctl.2: HISTORY: wfix Message-ID: References: <1477de655f76e1e6e85c12cb03c068b120704511.1767072049.git.sethmcmail@pm.me> <87zf70xxog.fsf@gmail.com> <20251230072756.c25thnpent43mjma@illithid> <87ldikxvs4.fsf@gmail.com> <20251230075353.aupaewanzn26wadm@illithid> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="53ud6b7r5liuif27" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20251230075353.aupaewanzn26wadm@illithid> --53ud6b7r5liuif27 Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Alejandro Colomar To: "G. Branden Robinson" Cc: Collin Funk , Seth McDonald , linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 2/4] sys/man2/sysctl.2: HISTORY: wfix Message-ID: References: <1477de655f76e1e6e85c12cb03c068b120704511.1767072049.git.sethmcmail@pm.me> <87zf70xxog.fsf@gmail.com> <20251230072756.c25thnpent43mjma@illithid> <87ldikxvs4.fsf@gmail.com> <20251230075353.aupaewanzn26wadm@illithid> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20251230075353.aupaewanzn26wadm@illithid> Hi all, On Tue, Dec 30, 2025 at 01:53:53AM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > Hi Collin, >=20 > At 2025-12-29T23:40:11-0800, Collin Funk wrote: > > It does say 1993, but it also has the following: > >=20 > > .\" @(#)sysctl.3 8.1.1 (2.11BSD GTE) 1/13/95 > > .\" > > .TH SYSCTL 3 "January 13, 1995" > >=20 > > The first line being used by SCCS? That is an assumption since I have > > never used it. >=20 > Yup, that's exactly what it is. >=20 > https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/utilities/what.html >=20 > To add precision to my earlier remarks, the "last" Berkeley CSRG release > appears to have been "4.4BSD Lite Release 2", dated May 1995. >=20 > https://gunkies.org/wiki/4.4BSD_Lite_Release_2 >=20 > The "real work" was by then happening as BSDI, where every developer was > assured that their deeply principled avoidance of the viral GPL would > result in billionaire status for them all. Winning! >=20 > > > I suggest the Linux man-pages project not attempt to track the > > > provenance or timeline of 2.11BSD features. It's too much work. > >=20 > > And there is probably not much practical benefit, i.e., just some > > (very few, probably) people interested in the history. >=20 > I number myself among those few, but without some sort of tool to keep > track of 2BSD + 2.11BSD patches on an _automated_ basis to monitor when > symbols appear and vanish from the source base, I think researching such > history is a poor use of Linux man-pages contributors' time. >=20 > Put differently, I would advocate _against_ Alex mandating that > contributors to "HISTORY" sections pin down just when a feature showed > up in 2BSD development specifically. Without the aforementioned tool, I > think the problem is too hard. The juice is not worth the squeeze. I certainly won't mandate anything prior to POSIX.1-2001/Cor2-2004 (informally, POSIX.1-2004), as that's the oldest POSIX that is easily available. I personally don't check any older sources than that regularly. Actually, I'm even starting to ignore anything older than POSIX.1-2008, because for some reason the search engine at often fails for "word search" with Not Found The requested URL was not found on this server. so, I'm giving up on POSIX.1-2004 too. For some reason, the search engine works fine for more recent POSIX revisions. The Open Group website is a terrible thing, and part of the reason I decided to stop supporting the POSIX manual pages. The Austin Group would do well having a talk with whoever is in charge, and fix several things, including publication of POSIX.1-2001 and POSIX.1-2002, and actually open their standards (the source code of the standard; WG21 did publish the source of the C++ drafts and they got away with that). However, I won't reject patches documenting 2BSD and 3BSD, if some people are interested in doing the work. Have a lovely day! Alex >=20 > If any 2BSD advocates feel slighted, we can always point out that this > project largely uses the GPL, and that they can't expect anything good > to come from sick, evil copyleftists anyway. =F0=9F=98=88=F0=9F=A4=98 >=20 > Surely they can console themselves by counting their money. >=20 > Regards, > Branden --=20 --53ud6b7r5liuif27 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEES7Jt9u9GbmlWADAi64mZXMKQwqkFAmlTuMcACgkQ64mZXMKQ wqkpjxAAppp1VCxmb96ROl3SUGuZgiRqgI7FsvZMA4YBbid+q6Zyx/XSNW+kdoKK J3PJCtxoWqLvLh74I/u58Rnn28X0xHNEyEqV2iweSeYfCLjYfnu3bYu3nMD7NrPG 1hoHtE5c6/Bsvy/y83ngo1t3KQ8y00tbJs31EU+Uwpm96Ih7wVHCPvaaYWFYa/Ye 2IUgGbbEOi61J5oka+JtsGzYuAxnk2vm3k28mcDybmc/2e2GIgRxLWONzs32CDZA iDh6H6uOhhcfq7XPOdIP7s6k2QYNBIKm85ammD6zmywgTwJAjLM4sFMImoNULXVB e91Jt6fA3vCOv0H8UMFmALKKd/oTOxTuwvFmfdzAXmrFzqiKZGx1nWaeFZpnkPYD /tPJmHAlbPsj6gAPrWU5RM2zGugVfWrxN2j525QdtZNvb09Lh0JPCaB0xC3Ic218 GTdF9y6lHfvrOKVZpMY9AQaRjF4JtW50PoiVGDCGgnHRRyyfyKDEoPMeuiFIKVb4 VCPY4A20HgxsRiXPDFA+QsaA/XvY+v+bl/T2yX6066tXvlN+wk3KvpP5xdl49Bm5 cFkK07KQIgraYtnMSl4GdDBnkvBko1d1R7zhRKVMUOSLEoGjOqjvomQOhiGCLGM1 MBglj9+Pn81QoxvnBCkTTtT1kiUMzkt8y88nlAY2mSNwcUpz4Ho= =HO0e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --53ud6b7r5liuif27--