From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E92A158857 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2026 13:48:28 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1768744109; cv=none; b=VB3WMngWT7IPGv/CAc0rFO2Q8htu2tr7ukjIyb2UVTc61vdzaPuP2tlIPvNGqdENK0XarSCj2z67CrD55RBrgOcsu9wyztQxmlmD1WUTnLFxpLXa3GqhsSW7Bflrwu83fpZ+bzfntH3WfXoGWZgTp4312yvkUhhOF/OPhLln9OM= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1768744109; c=relaxed/simple; bh=crjgCiYhMkCY2yNXCUH89wAZC/5NDpOhshiowUBhHSo=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=QolJGyhVWB4JSKXkH0rEnLNu/93sLoohZkSsbMtrTvY9EltZ/sIuZmL8ciQRwh0dI2ameeYlSHBR04/tR1Cdyv5Bp0TxUlNq1byk9yXONcHBijpKA7Nw4jbSIGVTIWFLlMq3cItdqNyQL1RWcffIvTrHuuOK2D/ew4DkEwn5pLo= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=GKPiTWeZ; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="GKPiTWeZ" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B667FC116D0; Sun, 18 Jan 2026 13:48:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1768744108; bh=crjgCiYhMkCY2yNXCUH89wAZC/5NDpOhshiowUBhHSo=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=GKPiTWeZHtNWKQs1kT7DsI834mK5edmWrlMzyh4thEdT47F1t96re9/7D2LfBZ2lQ f44emBIX8h2PQN/Uus1X1vxd3z5MFkE7Kfqw+0ZC5mYkEK2//G9h9iBwsB0JgNvi9v WbxPxN1FXkOJKpS4186vt9fBQ2Ul+LPFR/A9jlWYJ8BcUIFDu0JtEpNmwBwdRRGEU5 dBA10fx558pQjdVAAELUemFbioCpKznOB+/EUKDo3DCXEktaCnuwzr9TaEnHpltDn2 W2jeUzdeG5P8U79+Tw7rQxr1aHPvtYJK49FOzoL5o6jBwcyP+yAuPMyJdKlrMIOjQb DYK3CpLubSnlA== Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2026 14:48:25 +0100 From: Alejandro Colomar To: "G. Branden Robinson" Cc: =?utf-8?B?0L3QsNCx?= , Seth McDonald , linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Chronological order of BSD, SV, and POSIX.1 Message-ID: References: <4dhcmq7vwbkiw5ik4nivsdli2pfb7d3xchchshgyz7cejw7sqk@tarta.nabijaczleweli.xyz> <20260118023323.5kztc554c5nz4gx5@illithid> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="po3g6qlxsxd4x2ja" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20260118023323.5kztc554c5nz4gx5@illithid> --po3g6qlxsxd4x2ja Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Alejandro Colomar To: "G. Branden Robinson" Cc: =?utf-8?B?0L3QsNCx?= , Seth McDonald , linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: Chronological order of BSD, SV, and POSIX.1 Message-ID: References: <4dhcmq7vwbkiw5ik4nivsdli2pfb7d3xchchshgyz7cejw7sqk@tarta.nabijaczleweli.xyz> <20260118023323.5kztc554c5nz4gx5@illithid> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20260118023323.5kztc554c5nz4gx5@illithid> Hi Branden, On Sat, Jan 17, 2026 at 08:33:23PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > Hi Alex, >=20 > At 2026-01-18T02:51:55+0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote: > > V1 > > V2 > > V3 > > V4 > > V5-- 1BSD /--- OpenBSD=09 > > V6-----\ 2BSD /------ NetBSD > > V7---------\ 3BSD - 4BSD - 4.3BSD Lite -- >=20 > Let me offer some corrections here, drawn partially from McKusick's > article "20 Years of Berkeley Unix".[1] Sorry it's gonna make the lines > longer. >=20 > V5-- 1BSD > V6-----\ 2BSD ---- 2.8BSD ------ 2.11BSD /--- OpenBSD > V7 \ / / /------ NetBSD > 32/V---------\ 3BSD - 4BSD - 4.3BSD - 4.4BSD-Lite -- > | \------ FreeBSD > SysIII > Unix/TS 4 Thanks!! > The salient points being: >=20 > * Unix 32/V, being the port to the DEC VAX, was a huge deal and > ultimately the common ancestor of _all_ AT&T and BSD Unices. I won't > say nobody ever developed Unix on any 16-bit platform besides the > PDP-11 ever again, but I venture that any such efforts are now mostly > obscure, and not impactful on the C or POSIX standards. ("near" and > "far" did not make it into ANSI C, for example, and if the x86 > couldn't manage that, no other chip was going to.) >=20 > * 2BSD, being a PDP-11-only product, kept the PDP-11 Unix kernel but > refreshed its userspace from the {3,4}BSD mothership on an ongoing > basis, where memory constraints permitted, and indeed 2.11BSD > continues to be developed as of 2025^Wwhoops, scratch that, patch #499 > came out 3 days ago.[1] >=20 > * There was no 4.3BSD-Lite. 4.4BSD-Lite is what you mean. Yup; accident. > Strictly, > "4.4BSD-Lite Release 2" was the end of the road, after which the CSRG > disbanded and several of its principals departed to BSDI where > unimaginable riches awaited them. Surely. >=20 > * Despite the previous, it's good to have 4.3BSD on the chart because it > endured a very long time. (To some frustration at the CSRG, but as I > understand it, AT&T Corporate spent years making ever louder threats > that they were going to sue the bejeezus out of Berkeley so that BSD > Unix, which was so aggravatingly popular with all the cheap computer > science labor spewing from the universities, quit creating headaches > for its marketers and price-fixers.) 4.3BSD was so influential that > much of it got folded back into SVr4, around the same time Sun > Microsystems sold its soul (and a major stake of equity) to AT&T. > > Regards, > Branden >=20 > [1] https://www.oreilly.com/openbook/opensources/book/kirkmck.html > [2] https://minnie.tuhs.org/TUHS/Archive/Distributions/UCB/2.11BSD/Patche= s/ Very interesting; thanks! Have a lovely day! 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