From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB8C91A680A for ; Sun, 29 Mar 2026 17:55:14 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1774806914; cv=none; b=t4IHApq9SJlboBzMDaUlb0KptxSkdZPqnrTm7nYKFP3I/CodZT134lhFzzwXiufDx1eHUePBWN4L1pTXXWB3Lw6mzMla81fJ9XPPpin5uiEVybW1+/R0U9FYf8vccSG7GeOYGq/2WoFMWeMWfdaAeEmRx1Y0wvqD9EE3+Z8RmEY= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1774806914; c=relaxed/simple; bh=0gZOik9rxEVJaQlhb/zQ6hr1GP5wEmn9mqhcCA+UXB0=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=gTYYE7p+lV4D8EIfyuAD7Y1+0VHQTZIi8l3YcgsWf9rBenX+FvX9TGL7hHtt2Rb+03Y+7+Bw+UO3wJRuQa+Y0mFQIRfNAQElxj77vcZr3b7T1MCd7ZaTmEkc7cmL3UslOe+RvXTSvW+D88/AqMm9TgC7C8uA7af9oMRKyBjCzAU= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=RUV7tXXN; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="RUV7tXXN" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CF9AC116C6; Sun, 29 Mar 2026 17:55:13 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1774806914; bh=0gZOik9rxEVJaQlhb/zQ6hr1GP5wEmn9mqhcCA+UXB0=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=RUV7tXXNHArJI+zncGnCKsK7UdpYEY5I5lc8iwf3SKIIrmVF+I30zv4B42Znfj9jk HXPngDoR/lTdMB5JMPqNi4UBAcGCuDmvTZvycMGQY2NY0dJoMPLlKi9s5cq3oYyVgF bvLDR2GRFz2wNwWXPwVZGA0wFejj+Q8T1Om8kdqMZsWUqQSe3ppa7V2RyQbzEQCtVU CU0qQs5fgPjBY6RLNqgKQoS/h9S1t3T2kJj3j+74QEwqjUEleF1RbUecdNTFDelCUy awFkBbQqWzt/3tTP7DbJmUa94DTv4tpxYZkac6hcQsZz5juvnQvY9sXQJJOyqEIl7s A4mYYXNqjTd/w== Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2026 19:55:11 +0200 From: Alejandro Colomar To: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Noack Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org, =?utf-8?Q?Micka=C3=ABl_Sala=C3=BCn?= Subject: Re: [PATCH] CONTRIBUTING.d/ai: Add guidelines banning AI for contributing Message-ID: References: <20260329.5167693e9f38@gnoack.org> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="p6vdhujg6sxjnj3m" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20260329.5167693e9f38@gnoack.org> --p6vdhujg6sxjnj3m Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Alejandro Colomar To: =?utf-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Noack Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org, =?utf-8?Q?Micka=C3=ABl_Sala=C3=BCn?= Subject: Re: [PATCH] CONTRIBUTING.d/ai: Add guidelines banning AI for contributing Message-ID: References: <20260329.5167693e9f38@gnoack.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20260329.5167693e9f38@gnoack.org> Hi G=C3=BCnther! On 2026-03-29T15:42:03+0200, G=C3=BCnther Noack wrote: > Hello! >=20 > On Tue, Oct 14, 2025 at 11:27:26PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote: > > Signed-off-by: Alejandro Colomar > > --- > >=20 > > Hi! > >=20 > > I've already been DDoSed in my own home server by AI crawlers (which is > > the reason I decided to move the HTTPS server to port 80, just to break > > links and stop the madness. I could install Anubis, but I'll resist for > > some time. > >=20 > > So far, I haven't noticed any contributors using AI. Probably, the > > combination of relatively few people contributing documentation, > > combined with still working on a mailing list, has helped us avoid the > > wave of AI contributions. > >=20 > > However, it's better to take preventive measures. AI is entirely banned > > in this project. The guidelines are clear and concise. >=20 > I know I'm late to the discussion, but for the record, I would like to > throw a scenario into the discussion that I consider a compelling use > case for AI-assisted man-page contributions. >=20 > As you know, the Landlock man page work mainly consists of taking the > existing kernel documentation text and putting it into the man page > form. That means that when producing the man page patches, the main > additional work is: >=20 > (a) formatting existing text in groff > (b) adapting the structure to match the man page format > (c) copy-and-pasting wording fixes between kernel and man page tree > (in either direction) >=20 > Because this is tedious and time-consuming, and because the added > value over the existing kernel documentation is low, Landlock's man > pages tend to lag behind the kernel documentation by many months. >=20 > Coding agents are very good at such reformatting tasks though, and > that would make it potentially feasible to keep this up to date much > faster. (with the rough process being that you point a coding agent > to the man page and Linux source trees and ask it to carry the > documentation changes over in a way that respects existing man page > style and structure). [^1] >=20 > Since the submitted man page text is the same as on the kernel side, > the main work done by the agent here is in Groff formatting, and in > finding the text in the kernel tree and putting it into the right man > page structure. >=20 > For inspiration, the Linux kernel itself has, after substantial > discussion, recently started adopting a different policy, where > AI-generated contributions are permitted, but where it is still made > clear that human contributors must review all AI-generated code and > have the same responsibilities as for a normal human-authored patch: >=20 > https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/D= ocumentation/process/coding-assistants.rst >=20 > I realize that the Landlock use case alone is maybe not enough to > change your stance on this, but I feel it's worth at least pointing > out that there are use cases with potential upsides. >=20 > I think that with a Linux-like policy for coding assistants, it would > be easier for us to keep the man pages up to date. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm certainly less worried about this specific use case than for anything else. But I still don't think it would be a good idea. And the ethical concerns remain. Let's keep the anti-AI policy. > =E2=80=93G=C3=BCnther >=20 >=20 > Footnotes >=20 > [^1] An alternative that has been considered in the past was to create > a mechanistic translation program to create the man pages from > kernel .rst and .h files, but this also seems brittle and would > mean that the man page structure would likely stay close to the > kernel documentation in structure. In my understanding, Linux's > eBPF helpers use that approach. Yes, bpf-helpers(7) does that. I hate it, but I prefer it over AI. :) Have a lovely day! 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