From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8651362133 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2026 18:08:27 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1776881307; cv=none; b=n3Emoa3jB52AULHNsmGhUxVouJVjTI9b6OfailmnXC7EoS66Bt3ohu496XDHrYY3kO208SPH/s8g5WMlbLhiKwPRq56P2ecKvjsExKJhY+f9TZbqtuSa5kUqzgYeQlvRDY5R5CBzJ1h9BMw+pKkchyMkKHg7pJ7qK0vx2V2Mqpo= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1776881307; c=relaxed/simple; bh=uD7v/jNdO+U8AVkqxA5DA6cS7jHiJ6HUBI0QrhYINHI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=tyTO+A4SWmSDPii4t9l3KbaY4w+Vaqw+5KPxzf+571eGinVMQbYSg9Ytu7UJBdb/c5JnEkmRQxA1lSMyWhfqPQKJcqHPA1p4Z2YOmXHPP02KD7xt9kT+7uGK0GdHqsijqzH+gute7Q9xmjpkkcYjExQ1tvuVa1L8ko8P0qt7HT4= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=cbEVxXOE; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="cbEVxXOE" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CF465C19425; Wed, 22 Apr 2026 18:08:26 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1776881307; bh=uD7v/jNdO+U8AVkqxA5DA6cS7jHiJ6HUBI0QrhYINHI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=cbEVxXOEXm3TBDt4eDDOeQxHNUHBiDv4FTSqJHW3HB1LrP0pz9WCzN0ySkuwUqufo tZd5EqVZhnkYznzBAvz96V+OIi0wFWoYdKNEJ3O+v3sYTgL2tbYjqrQfa4dCIXHnKD SoIS8eLxpHEINhK73blcLNlpR1/+9dONaPZO7SK5GCcnBOnsFOO/1KFlPX4DNjDAnH vb6edhbUj6MDRh9hOrrKMbaxGI3K1mY7cY6/BRSXuGRR8aapEzN0XUEXmxqig8eycI 5L300tc0lhkZxoKHi287TH9GU7ec/VxWQ7OZOxZK6ZsPW+JV/JZsK8vD119EMBz9gK EdW+ZrIKJjBJg== Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 20:08:24 +0200 From: Alejandro Colomar To: "G. Branden Robinson" Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] man7, man2: document SCHED_EXT policy Message-ID: References: <20260412181743.276652-1-yphbchou0911@gmail.com> <20260423000434.G45a2@cchengyang.duckdns.org> <20260422163603.xvgyqulnl7knxeem@illithid> <20260422172328.q65i3pge46mpaj6m@illithid> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xs5hhcvhzyawvfwh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20260422172328.q65i3pge46mpaj6m@illithid> --xs5hhcvhzyawvfwh Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Alejandro Colomar To: "G. Branden Robinson" Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] man7, man2: document SCHED_EXT policy Message-ID: References: <20260412181743.276652-1-yphbchou0911@gmail.com> <20260423000434.G45a2@cchengyang.duckdns.org> <20260422163603.xvgyqulnl7knxeem@illithid> <20260422172328.q65i3pge46mpaj6m@illithid> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20260422172328.q65i3pge46mpaj6m@illithid> Hi Branden, On 2026-04-22T12:23:28-0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote: [...] > > However, 2 lines below there the patch introduced a line using BR > > perfectly. That very much read like random LLM stuff. >=20 > Nice catch. I like the way you sussed that out. While humans are not > immune from this class of error (forgetting something you "knew" 60 > seconds ago--maybe more like 60 nanoseconds in LLM time), it's uncommon > among mentally healthy people who haven't been hitting the "substances". >=20 > I'm reminded of how toddlers acquire object permanence.[1] Not _quite_ > the same thing, as abstract knowledge is more easily lost ("what are the > conventional units of the ideal gas constant? how many operator > precedence levels does C have, again? Off-topic, but in case you have the doubt, it can be settled: There are as many levels as subclauses under 6.5 ("Expressions") --I don't know the number of subclauses from the top of my head, though, of course--, excluding of course 6.5.1 ("General"). In C23 (n3220), that is documented in footnote 82: The syntax specifies the precedence of operators in the evaluation of an expression, which is the same as the order of the major subclauses of this subclause, highest precedence first. [...] Checking the number of subclauses, it happened to be 17 (18 - 1) in C23, and remains the same number in C2y. That number seems to have stayed stable: we already had 17 categories in C89 (but "Expressions" was then 3.3). :) > ")--but it seems close. >=20 > A course for people red-teaming LLMs to pursue, maybe. >=20 > > There was also the arbitrary combined use of .P and .PP. I suspect no > > human would use both in a document, unless the surrounding style > > already uses both (which could confuse). Since we only have .P, the > > .PP came out of nowhere. >=20 > Another good catch. As you note, the domain is limited. In documents > with long histories and multiple contributors, the pointless profusion > of paragraphing macros with identical semantics is sadly common. >=20 > > And then there's the extensive use of \f (without brackets) >=20 > Still _really_ common in the global man page corpus. But yeah, a hard > mistake to make for someone who's a total n00b to man page writing in > general _and_ to the Linux man-pages project. People don't think up > that syntax, they crib it from somewhere. Or an LLM does it for them. >=20 > > and \(bu, of which we have no cases anymore. >=20 > Unlike `\f`, I regard `\(bu` [preferably spelled `\[bu]`] as cromulent > usage. We need not be afraid of bullet characters. They degrade to > US-ASCII perfectly well in groff (and mandoc(1) too) and I'm confident > that this special character will work everywhere the Linux man-pages are > likely to be formatted. See groff_char(7). Here we exclusively use the spelling \f[] and \[bu]. That's why \(bu was suspicious. I could expect it from an expert in the matter who didn't know our style, but the author didn't seem one. >=20 > > All of this was very suspicious, so I had to ask. >=20 > Is there a resource that collects "here's how I caught an LLM-generated > software patch/research paper/court filing" stories? I haven't heard of any, but I suspect there is. I've seen some good amount of LLM crap that I think I have a good eye for catching it (even if sometimes I may not say it explicitly, especially when the author knows it's not allowed --I may prefer to wait for the author to disclose it voluntarily; that has the benefit of allowing me to evaluate the limits of the honesty of the human--). Cheers, Alex > Regards, > Branden >=20 > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_permanence --=20 --xs5hhcvhzyawvfwh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEES7Jt9u9GbmlWADAi64mZXMKQwqkFAmnpDpIACgkQ64mZXMKQ wqkatw/+OHwf6SEC2/Pe+J8JATuf3FLu3Yc+Mfi+kDfoWNjYbS8W8FDu1T90eI1Q WHgFgTCnCEOnpcrQI8jGEZLAYASDJYQNyQKFS9A9tUMa7T1PwnzmeaEpMNNR65Ke VtpuG+pbXQfep5vyTCUCic7gMBtBJUqJB3iw+FJZqboKMvuaSbFvFDOfk69TyZYq L4HcSUxRIVYGaKSBxWVqocm+oYF5apuQVlrV40d+IOZWhDGKG/9cZ47xdIPk9BFt h9s5nld+NuUUlcaYshCT1NpQfPNwch7j6sfA8qrfQqpDtxkMKnrWuwfhDxymu0Bc 7cyZhvFpmONoKYEzTw0ocASpbmOcbQfB1xGqLURm7ht5hs0g/ZbQmIU4o02LzfQJ y6TBf6i9+Kt+ATsKrlaxpBPpd3msMu96mmh5X/yNO7i6XCvIil+RGMD8nxRXzop6 g2tuPfd80RnJXjk4wYP+WRivjiq2pmBpuezHE0gvAZuCdtmJv++uUunicVJd1Wfs hAemxxp+ahGQL0BYYgk3+dgELYcdFReUyQB7PhExljQkLR8k5wgr3cLKL31EtxIb 4bhWpvNEMMjCMSlubYQL8MnuZ6HMethl+xiQJhmU8Mc13VVbqOOzW7y2HC/gOsYB lNx+Hg01cZjcJfzuk5FytBJWVRzNNbuPRKGiJnkKnSG0V/Z0yQw= =k0uu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xs5hhcvhzyawvfwh--