From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-alma10-1.taild15c8.ts.net [100.103.45.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DE533C768B for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2026 21:09:20 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1784149762; cv=none; b=EcftEReJ9lHKeB8GM6RFBcyDV2OzdYNlYD/1BkmdLv/d2eoBErdIM2shGVdfYsOiPbQVBt8YEYmyV9xA06zbjbo44gHYAU8aI2oHCBNwalvRNOwjtp9pFCSrkYqC7uZjwAY75TcY+FUidWBFGNKOBy7tXnjD6p5zBgHQV7Sicyc= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1784149762; c=relaxed/simple; bh=xNW9Ex++mr8fXupOquQM52sCgjIwbH8V7NhjGImG404=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=uHBVo7EGH9TTrjfAWdzYzGK8NPpPWlxLzhcDXiSBHBoMUni9VelrKBLIkAdb7kfRG094CYhHVF0cA9b6yzsjzeGRDmPeWNY+SzDzKtkOJVpcgA5/5ckP7DaDJ5eU5Y8781Sdcc2jgRKo5dybVkn4+e5KWPAlzXGma+dKi/rTVCw= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=NY2U0Tu3; arc=none smtp.client-ip=100.103.45.18 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="NY2U0Tu3" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00EF01F000E9; Wed, 15 Jul 2026 21:09:19 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel.org; s=k20260515; t=1784149760; bh=hBTpZS9dfPnB7U/Fa/iMR+t76MmhtGAD5kcgD4s+w5o=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=NY2U0Tu3tkab8FW0WsbWmHrHHWY5ECs/t2Dw0DicyVzF5spwnyIaiJxfqVxR13t5n cn1egafABqR167Rs1CP6ldIo66pim7ZZ5nXnAEluDGY/vGe2zE6UbofChTq2t25Cqq 3m7rvBazUKKPWPSAajR+7abZL5pw54K8agxzqzOGSjwG8XIiIOznkY1SwEkDwV6VZC KluscAXoFSdOlwoSuiYy1R+hxzV0manbqeBaFT5fPmv+UUt/7jvjuqAW4ec48JslBa VEdBCooeoQ5tuUYBwRdrMxXbf8ADvVGHiGI3ELAEiaQNsEElb8Pe/q9A7CL5B1/wPE G3S9eS8tUCgIQ== Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 23:09:16 +0200 From: Alejandro Colomar To: DJ Delorie Cc: "G. Branden Robinson" , linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: man/man8/ldconfig.8: document system-wide tunables Message-ID: References: <20260715165450.iakjkw6qwgcnpzq7@illithid> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="r6lqpg4k2q4lo4yx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --r6lqpg4k2q4lo4yx Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Alejandro Colomar To: DJ Delorie Cc: "G. Branden Robinson" , linux-man@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: man/man8/ldconfig.8: document system-wide tunables Message-ID: References: <20260715165450.iakjkw6qwgcnpzq7@illithid> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Hi DJ, On 2026-07-15T14:19:49-0400, DJ Delorie wrote: [...] > > There is, potentially, a _third_ option, which I mentioned in my earlier > > email. As I said, literally no one expressed interest. > > > > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/xno6ge8p38.fsf@greed.delorie.com/T/#m= 9fda91ba28ca257c67d4595f81d38b32c5c9c937 >=20 > glibc uses texinfo, which is TeX but terminals don't have **** off ;-) >=20 > I think of texinfo as a "TeX compiler". I don't write programs in > assembly either (well, usually ;). I find it easier to write documentation in man(7) than in any other languages. It's simple enough that I don't need to remember much. Also, not needing to compile the documentation makes it also easier to deal with. I don't write assembly, but sh(1) scripts are nice for writing something quick. :) > I've always advocated for "whatever system means the docs are stored and > edited with the code, that I can turn into whatever I need." If you mean store them in a separate file (such as a .3 file next to the =2Ec file), I can agree. If you mean source code comments (that is, in the same file), I disagree. I find code without comments to be more readable (assuming the author of the code doesn't golf, or worse). [...] > I wrote the tunables docs a long time ago, but had to > hold back the patch until I knew which release would have the code > changes, so they would stay in sync. You're welcome to send the patches well before they're merged in glibc. We can review them with enough time. You can just tell me the feature is not merged in glibc, and thus I can't merge. [...] > > As I understand it, one of Alex's objectives, as was Michael's before, > > is to keep the files in the man/man* directories directly renderable > > with "man -l". >=20 > I agree with that! >=20 > I just think we could relax the "and must be formatted exactly as a > release" a bit, in exchange for making it easier to contribute by > removing one or two rules the contributors need to know. >=20 > But that assumes that it's (1) purely cosmetic, and (2) automatable. I > note that "man" formats according to the window's width, so even the > official tools don't honor the "and formatted exactly as" rule. For the tests in the build system, I use MANWIDTH=3D80, precisely to maintain a consistent width that is the most common one. $ grepc -xmk MANWIDTH share/mk/ share/mk/configure/build-depends/man/man.mk:MANWIDTH ?=3D 80 > (wait, when did "man -l" happen? Have I been missing that all along? > Is my script really that old?) It seems to be there already in the first commit of the man-db.git repository. 190b315e1cae (2001-04-26; "Initial revision") The ChangeLog has some older traces from it: Wed Nov 16 20:34:54 GMT 1994 Wilf. (G.Wilford@ee.surrey.ac.uk) * Version: 2.2a7 * src/man.c (format_and_display_file): Fix bug which caused=20 `man -l -' to fail. Produce sensible error message when -l file is inaccessable. Allow compressed manual pages to be specified when using -l (must have correct extension) * soelim/soelim.l (main): ensure (progname) is the basename of argv[0] . * src/manpath.c (main): remove local declaration of (quiet). add `--global' option. So, it's at least as old as 1994. :) Have a lovely night! 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