From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=100.103.45.18 ARC-Seal: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; t=1792918662; b=eOHorZsHWnivcfPUJshiILNDPxjl6iyQ4g94fYRa9i5qd+ZdMFtBFuSxEWb2R8IZEGD8 aunMq9uxGVhdD7fCs03i27CGBOgyErHM7lJw0OMTP/EpSI5TlYyPn/vlsfdy7/s1Y3uJx 5iDhKng5EX/wH91WcVKK+cGvGhOMKCSDDGe+aFee2+VCtxKHVhQnwIbszLgYZj2iI3wf4 XDxk8PuOxBAvlE+Ypnj+sXbaQTbhWI8ja3MHjd7mAgFaC49fFuLxS/X4C3Taemk3k9hrF cICdG17KjmUzahtPp6XJj0zxM9aGmUSOkplok7inV6gLuR3e7N2GVgG3+rmJevp/r/g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1792918662; h=Received:DKIM-Signature:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID: References:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; bh=4OBbNqQwWLs4ejMZakILkiKtNj6U/IIdPStR6fuWZeU=; b=bziTvAkKwFj2LNRxg3rJnoz/WFzxAZoRvezGmrQDvrgeITs8wuiBBaEa1SR/dPGPBG2w pN+dEszUeCCQPglgCs0K08lDt3b+3jamAvoI2JXD2upOBJcpzkCWmlHGYpmj6SaPwN65Y euR4JuAEWXanDlARqT++AJaZXo/w8NkVw5Tr08tpDIM+Ti2kD/l3vwO8KNi5qTruUvx18 vDQClcgWlWr6NwbM04mKf0wJ/rzHCiltU67kY2UZlK5MbQ6fW3WcI1n5yZUGryEbfeSDS VE05TNIuKmI/goiPKfo4x2p2Z6e2OLPQpTu9fdlEbyrLBzg23yRvx4tQvZf/1/xuRsQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=k20260515 header.b=kG8njqx1; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=100.103.45.18 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (quasi.space.kernel.org [100.103.45.18]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (prime256v1)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81EB0606A31A for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2026 08:57:42 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=k20260515 header.b=kG8njqx1 Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A55D61F01825; Sun, 25 Oct 2026 08:57:37 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel.org; s=k20260515; t=1792918662; bh=4OBbNqQwWLs4ejMZakILkiKtNj6U/IIdPStR6fuWZeU=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=kG8njqx1VBlvqtdAvYBNKv79cfC3KqMsrMIeOwfOhnoakJP7zpP3fx9vlRKklgMv6 nbMVGlmSenIgd2eftfjoyo+IY8SWmKErDv4KULkJRqW9bCaSPD0fpNXFvD+9SiQ9dC dc6vrbRoJC2zACNi40vRCBphb0fmMt+vbDpzb/XIuMCG4qWyXCu9Q+++ixY3T+fwJv x3tNkQXbOGVbrQ6VhvVaVb87U/I/bbNec3k47Yj2ut9bXoWOC7QPtH+BPSkYOZt7+f sLczODqAT9uYX/jMkqu+h9ccG7jHdD7Xly423+4FK6n8P2+HgoxfDuIUvdoqIL1m8O U/95+kzsX5dpw== Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2026 09:57:33 +0100 From: Alejandro Colomar To: Martin Uecker Cc: Christopher Bazley , "Michael Kerrisk (man7.org)" , linux-man@vger.kernel.org, Michael Kerrisk , Sam James , Carlos O'Donell , "Joseph S. Myers" , corbet@lwn.net Subject: Re: [PATCH] man/: SYNOPSIS: Remove GNU forward-declarations of parameters for lengths of array parameters Message-ID: References: <76bff7cc342961bf81acc4a2d60e8c3d01918433.camel@tugraz.at> X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="64mczudc73zkjd3y" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <76bff7cc342961bf81acc4a2d60e8c3d01918433.camel@tugraz.at> --64mczudc73zkjd3y Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Alejandro Colomar To: Martin Uecker Cc: Christopher Bazley , "Michael Kerrisk (man7.org)" , linux-man@vger.kernel.org, Michael Kerrisk , Sam James , Carlos O'Donell , "Joseph S. Myers" , corbet@lwn.net Subject: Re: [PATCH] man/: SYNOPSIS: Remove GNU forward-declarations of parameters for lengths of array parameters Message-ID: References: <76bff7cc342961bf81acc4a2d60e8c3d01918433.camel@tugraz.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <76bff7cc342961bf81acc4a2d60e8c3d01918433.camel@tugraz.at> Hi Martin, > Date: 2026-10-25 09:40:52+0100 > From: Martin Uecker > > Am Sonntag, dem 25.10.2026 um 08:38 +0100 schrieb Alejandro Colomar: [...] > > > Yes, but we do not even have a proposal and [static 1] exists today. > >=20 > > Actually, we do have one: n3803. > > > >=20 > > The wording on this one is good. I think I forgot some trivial > > duplication of the diff for both the non-abstract and the abstract > > declarators, but I can fix that when I arrive home, so we could have it > > in time for the next meeting. >=20 > Yes, please. But this would also not work for function pointer, > so I thought you meant something new. Done. I've asked Dan for a number, and sent the draft to the mailing list. > > > > And we also have the issue that it changes the meaning of the bound. > > > > It's just terrible. > > >=20 > > > The bound in [1] has no meaning in parameters, > >=20 > > This is not true. ISO C is just toilet paper in this regard. > > It has a meaning in SDCC and GCC, and every programmer that ever wrote > > [1] assigned a meaning to it. Moreover, I'm using [1] myself to express > > pointers to exactly 1 element. >=20 > In GCC [static n] and [n] have the same meaning, except > that [static] additionally implies that the pointer is not null. > I have worked on this, so please assume I know this. Indeed, I know you know. > In ISO C it is as I said, [n] has no meaning and [static n] > is a strict subset of what we want. And I insist that ISO C should be ignored. It doesn't matter what ISO C says about it, and your statement that [1] has no meaning in parameters is giving it too much credibility. > So I am really confused about what you are trying to tell me. I'm trying to say that [1] has a meaning, even outside of GCC. Every programmer that ever wrote [n] meant the obvious thing. The fact that ISO C ignores this shouldn't be an excuse to claim that [static n] doesn't change the meaning, because it is a de-facto change of meaning. Cheers, Alex --=20 --64mczudc73zkjd3y Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEES7Jt9u9GbmlWADAi64mZXMKQwqkFAmrdxHwACgkQ64mZXMKQ wqlgtw/+IWU2Ih9gclEQaLo7qAyyQtCH/wQNwqHmB1u7qBVeZ2UlU2Errz0migDB KiXYdWwFaL5beGWCH5ExgWwvRixaMoy01lYn8ZBH+xf2Wrj7Qw8s4c8/b/4yVZkl T9wo2OmOoUQAZSyW6owtopPGXbIZxNdTLcyoceCLJMd9yXD4pSren0VdFvoYa7DD 8E2gDA+V6xwp/koP9Ue9CKxa/sRvEeYD55jFbhzZidIiqrM+8zDLQV/NKdr5L/g1 CR9n7EjmCWzXwX/cq2SW14lmRUlH6bsq+8rtAUIFBBHfVovCrNZZZ2Vg3LrNqMhP d2g5hWJlgu8xw+3vLSiYNh6sL173h/P7muwsN9Xdj2mC91kNcon9mHkwsT8i6A5I bElTW1VtfFBvU4NpnG256nKGBGt8mo8CV0OryePINAt/6eB4nz3U43ZMviSInEzu xPV76LeZ740XekVUiRKxODJ9+NeZdZvumHHL38DQHEDgp7AxmQCXahrr3oz+pnNl +myIBfmcnbXe/I8ZdsIfi/vWtNnfPtLhdoK99gzFQnrTZZ8vlqDC28maWJn9hP8+ Bb4Kj/1Uz/xXqHc2+ooIyBye1j1n9v4uMMjySSL/T1WHs1d4BhoILm+Lr/DH0Qgz 8HvjagxJ0jSB/dZLJcb7fBwGvGDC3GVdOZQ2gnN46ChqOQvjr5M= =avhg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --64mczudc73zkjd3y--