From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=100.103.45.18 ARC-Seal: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; t=1794489146; b=bu2rqfI10NY4HNY9G2oLJ5RAT+MKQp22SRYdf0BAq1itQ2cd1bUtSVRUVzsmHd8ea8WD DB3s8qdUJ5nZAZRRymTzNXPVdp7VZ0a1gEvD5DYdLO1TeMhCEbxd1jYds31RJfMvl+3S7 DjAz4b4JMjgz8rNTS01IAUUwzRqLk8LJXDyPV7EYeNLCdDqVCIUViwnzq02REckyzRYxH m0QQ/Gwu9/0lZiBCzIotDKAiGxxqNSmNgphDWbKR0sRouP/pS65ze2pntsVG5nVfkPyiU Osc+XBbw3ViyraPFCaB2X5P3DYHsHiNmkiwEf4MKb9nFV62D1aI5D7A9yVWgiOsueLA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1794489146; h=Received:DKIM-Signature:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; bh=SG+L7YV3R6NXZnFs1/oTkBgPFSamKRG3WiS4K1C0xBM=; b=E7iRpBq4DuAyMhpYv7igmlZwBiR+3CkXg0ecj5y/DHXkuTCNovrzELjuAow5UDn5ST7x hglJcI9SDpgNgVRi4SjiYGGLryytg6p9GL+moCzdZFLYq4cgIqQrNFtl6d1zn93aKiz+W k2+K8ujO3d9FRcMFGIYjBU0G/M9PEqgdmNfW+XiAgDcPqoypB4S0TSxrgxKMiAjxE0OVp Fhy7DlP8PU/VNllGmhZqh1fGtWj6+BlxdNGL8TMOrMcGLInhl2NJDkawtcexauYBo1MNP BBu46ikZdC+P/asd9gQUhnZwJqGqW25UZ2SewG3nY/SLsAreLYqQBHZdr/AgNRn4lLA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=k20260515 header.b=U+Jt6I4Q; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=100.103.45.18 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (quasi.space.kernel.org [100.103.45.18]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (prime256v1)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 897A1606A321 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2026 13:12:26 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=k20260515 header.b=U+Jt6I4Q Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6B8D41F00A0B; Thu, 12 Nov 2026 13:12:24 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel.org; s=k20260515; t=1794489146; bh=SG+L7YV3R6NXZnFs1/oTkBgPFSamKRG3WiS4K1C0xBM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=U+Jt6I4QgjceuD8IxVKE3B6sE0jUW6as/ND3c9Z0uvOsYADaJVtU52l2AXf+ZITs6 4eLntVic0oMzhngDSD+MWl72A4D8T8f/lOuZ5xo9nVx9ZDGtKA3BUBBBEjh5dDrfYf HjS+ULIf6iIvvr0L9OgJBiXyw07pCW4n4cA7UC8hooleJUiFm7KeWbYS6lVU7zQ6GH akxY0SXJfTa1CvYHpQE5jctwgRIcxxlwmlEdfzHtcTisAdv7i22Wn9iX9PqLxBQblE 1AXL82RuAKr3pQwOJ+dWWj8EmLgX1W5rY8BwPs1aYzinQNkB5jfpfvL3ZSzRrH73gN 62ULOFMOBmj6Q== Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2026 14:12:21 +0100 From: Alejandro Colomar To: Alejandro Colomar , Rich Felker , Vincent Lefevre , linux-man@vger.kernel.org, libc-alpha@sourceware.org, Walter Harms , ~hallyn/shadow@lists.sr.ht, musl@lists.openwall.com Subject: Re: [musl] Re: [PATCH v1] man/man3/crypt.3: These functions accept many algorithms, not only DES Message-ID: References: <313da4c4e217a58e49e981f62d16bd15c97352bf.1794268615.git.alx@kernel.org> <20261112015223.GA242717@joooj.vinc17.net> <20261112025339.GM26138@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20261112032929.GB160897@qaa.vinc17.org> <20261112033742.GG5716@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20261112120831.GH5716@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20261112124114.GB3542221@port70.net> X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="awultqdbpzdj2jgd" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20261112124114.GB3542221@port70.net> --awultqdbpzdj2jgd Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Alejandro Colomar To: Alejandro Colomar , Rich Felker , Vincent Lefevre , linux-man@vger.kernel.org, libc-alpha@sourceware.org, Walter Harms , ~hallyn/shadow@lists.sr.ht, musl@lists.openwall.com Subject: Re: [musl] Re: [PATCH v1] man/man3/crypt.3: These functions accept many algorithms, not only DES Message-ID: References: <313da4c4e217a58e49e981f62d16bd15c97352bf.1794268615.git.alx@kernel.org> <20261112015223.GA242717@joooj.vinc17.net> <20261112025339.GM26138@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20261112032929.GB160897@qaa.vinc17.org> <20261112033742.GG5716@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20261112120831.GH5716@brightrain.aerifal.cx> <20261112124114.GB3542221@port70.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20261112124114.GB3542221@port70.net> Hi Szabolcs, > Date: 2026-11-12 13:41:14+0100 > From: Szabolcs Nagy > > * Alejandro Colomar [2026-11-12 13:27:13 +0100= ]: > > How about something this (we can improve the wording)? > >=20 > > diff --git i/man/man3/crypt.3 w/man/man3/crypt.3 > > index 524781d3c2a0..d579bc5394fb 100644 > > --- i/man/man3/crypt.3 > > +++ w/man/man3/crypt.3 > > @@ -111,6 +111,9 @@ .SH ATTRIBUTES > > .BR crypt_r () > > T} Thread safety MT-Safe > > .TE > > +.SH VERSIONS > > +POSIX specifies a quite useless API, > > +and all systems extend it significantly. >=20 > please don't put nonsense into the official man pages. I agree I could have used more precise wording. I think you could have used more precise wording too, since you're complaining about that. What is nonsense in what I said? Is it perhaps too offensive? Yes; I think I should have said s/useless/limited/. Is it completely nonsense? I think not. > your job Ironically, your job is *not* to judge or specify my job (if it's a job at all). I suggest that you limit yourself to comment on what *the manual pages* should say, rather than on what *I* should do. I'll continue as if you had said s/your job/the job of the manual pages/ > is to document the interface contract including > implementation defined behaviour, The contract is specified in the sections of the manual page that are meant for that, such as DESCRIPTION, RETURN VALUE, etc. VERSIONS is a section for discussing differences between implementations, and between implementations and the spec (although this might also go in STANDARDS; it's a blurry line). > not to judge the spec I do agree that we should not judge the spec unnecessarily. But about what you said literally, I disagree. The manual pages have been full of opinions --where appropriate-- since the very early times of manual pages. Already in the early BSDs there were comments about strncpy(3), for example. Here's some of them: $ git show man-pages-5.00:man3/strcpy.3 \ | MANWIDTH=3D64 lman /dev/stdin \ | grep -A5 NOTES; NOTES Some programmers consider strncpy() to be inefficient and error prone. If the programmer knows (i.e., includes code to test!) that the size of dest is greater than the length of src, then strcpy() can be used. See for a (incomplete) list of historic counter-examples. > and other systems. I didn't judge other systems, I think. Have a lovely day! 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