[linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Mike Beeson]

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Hi all,

I've searched high and low, but can't find a product (either USB, PCI or
PCI-E) that can allow me to have twin tuners and pick up the UK freesat
service (with BBC and ITV HD content). Does such a thing exist?

I wouldn't mid going with 2 single tuner USB products, but even then I'm not
sure what is required.

The wiki pages don't seem to offer any light and neither does a large amount
of googling.

Thanks for the help.

Mike.

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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Lauri Tischler]

Mike Beeson wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've searched high and low, but can't find a product (either USB, PCI or
> PCI-E) that can allow me to have twin tuners and pick up the UK freesat
> service (with BBC and ITV HD content). Does such a thing exist?
> 
> I wouldn't mid going with 2 single tuner USB products, but even then I'm not
> sure what is required.
> 
> The wiki pages don't seem to offer any light and neither does a large amount
> of googling.

Pinnacle PCTV 3010IX (2x DVB-T + 2x analog) PCI-express
Terratec 2400i DT Dual DVB-T PCI-E
Hauppauge WinTV Nova-T 500 2x DVB-T PCI
Pinnacle PCTV 2000i Dual DVB-T Pro 2xDVB-T PCI

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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Mike Beeson]

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Thanks Lauri,

Those cards are for UK freeview on DVB-T. The freesat service is on DVB-S or
DVB-S2 (again I can't find which).

Mike.


On 09/06/2008, Lauri Tischler <lwgt@iki.fi> wrote:
>
> Mike Beeson wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've searched high and low, but can't find a product (either USB, PCI or
> > PCI-E) that can allow me to have twin tuners and pick up the UK freesat
> > service (with BBC and ITV HD content). Does such a thing exist?
> >
> > I wouldn't mid going with 2 single tuner USB products, but even then I'm
> not
> > sure what is required.
> >
> > The wiki pages don't seem to offer any light and neither does a large
> amount
> > of googling.
>
> Pinnacle PCTV 3010IX (2x DVB-T + 2x analog) PCI-express
> Terratec 2400i DT Dual DVB-T PCI-E
> Hauppauge WinTV Nova-T 500 2x DVB-T PCI
> Pinnacle PCTV 2000i Dual DVB-T Pro 2xDVB-T PCI
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-dvb mailing list
> linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
> http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
>

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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Lauri Tischler]

Mike Beeson wrote:
> Thanks Lauri,
> 
> Those cards are for UK freeview on DVB-T. The freesat service is on DVB-S or
> DVB-S2 (again I can't find which).

I dont believe that there exists dual-tuner cards for dvb-s or dvb-s2.
Here's some single tuners.
Technotrend Budget DVB-S2 S3600 USB
Technotrend S2-S3650 DVB-S2 CI USB
Azurewave SP400 1041+4046 DVB-S2 PCI
Technotrend S2-3200 DVB-S2 PCI
TerraTec Cinergy S2 DVB-S2 PCI

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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Mike Beeson]

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Thanks. I did look at the Technotrend S3600. Can I use two of these at the
same time? Could I expect to have problems with this?

Ideally I want to use one for viewing and one for recording or both
recording or both viewing (picture in picture).

Mike.


On 09/06/2008, Lauri Tischler <lwgt@iki.fi> wrote:
>
> Mike Beeson wrote:
>
>> Thanks Lauri,
>>
>> Those cards are for UK freeview on DVB-T. The freesat service is on DVB-S
>> or
>> DVB-S2 (again I can't find which).
>>
>
> I dont believe that there exists dual-tuner cards for dvb-s or dvb-s2.
> Here's some single tuners.
> Technotrend Budget DVB-S2 S3600 USB
> Technotrend S2-S3650 DVB-S2 CI USB
> Azurewave SP400 1041+4046 DVB-S2 PCI
> Technotrend S2-3200 DVB-S2 PCI
> TerraTec Cinergy S2 DVB-S2 PCI
>

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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[André Weidemann]

Mike Beeson wrote:
> Thanks. I did look at the Technotrend S3600. Can I use two of these at 
> the same time? Could I expect to have problems with this?

Hi Mike, since there are no DVB-S2 channels on the Freesat platform(not 
even the 2 HD channels), there's no need to go for DVB-S2 unless you 
want to be set for the future.
So any DVB-S card or USB box will do just fine.

If you think about using VDR you might want to apply this patch 
here(http://www.rst38.org.uk/vdr/freesat.zip), since it adds Freesat EPG 
information to the channels. Most Freesat channels only carry Now/Next 
info, and a few like Channel 4 have no EPG at all without the patch. The 
patch is against VDR 1.4.7, so if you intend to use VDR 1.6.0 you might 
have to resolve some rejects by hand.

Have fun.
  André

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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Simon Farnsworth]

Lauri Tischler wrote:
> Mike Beeson wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've searched high and low, but can't find a product (either USB, PCI or
>> PCI-E) that can allow me to have twin tuners and pick up the UK freesat
>> service (with BBC and ITV HD content). Does such a thing exist?
>>
>> I wouldn't mid going with 2 single tuner USB products, but even then I'm not
>> sure what is required.
>>
>> The wiki pages don't seem to offer any light and neither does a large amount
>> of googling.
> 
> Pinnacle PCTV 3010IX (2x DVB-T + 2x analog) PCI-express
> Terratec 2400i DT Dual DVB-T PCI-E
> Hauppauge WinTV Nova-T 500 2x DVB-T PCI
> Pinnacle PCTV 2000i Dual DVB-T Pro 2xDVB-T PCI
> 
These are all Freeview-compatible tuners, not Free*sat*.

Mike needs something that does two DVB-S and S2 tuners.
-- 
Simon Farnsworth


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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Robert]

On Mon, June 9, 2008 1:30 pm, Mike Beeson wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've searched high and low, but can't find a product (either USB, PCI or
> PCI-E) that can allow me to have twin tuners and pick up the UK freesat
> service (with BBC and ITV HD content). Does such a thing exist?
>
> I wouldn't mid going with 2 single tuner USB products, but even then I'm
> not
> sure what is required.
>
> The wiki pages don't seem to offer any light and neither does a large
> amount
> of googling.
>

I've been looking for the same thing for a while, and haven't found
anything.  I was planning on buying the Technotrend S-1500 (PCI card)
which appears to be fairly well supported.

I think someone else has said it, but all freesat broadcasts are currently
DVB-S only.  I can currently get BBCHD and ITVHD using the DVB-S part of
my HVR-3000 (Analog + DVB-T + DVB-S hybrid card)

I think that DVB-S2 support in Linux is still fairly new, and not
officially supported by (m)any apps (VDR or MythTv)

Robert.


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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Mike Beeson]

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Thanks everyone. This is really helpful info.

I'd like to go DVB-S2 for future compatibility as I don't want to junk the
tuners and get new ones if the BBC or ITV decide to go to DVB-S2. It looks
like the Technotrend S3600 is the best option at the moment.

My main concern is having two of these USB and whether I will get any
trouble with this??

Mike.


On 09/06/2008, Robert <RobertCL@iname.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, June 9, 2008 1:30 pm, Mike Beeson wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've searched high and low, but can't find a product (either USB, PCI or
> > PCI-E) that can allow me to have twin tuners and pick up the UK freesat
> > service (with BBC and ITV HD content). Does such a thing exist?
> >
> > I wouldn't mid going with 2 single tuner USB products, but even then I'm
> > not
> > sure what is required.
> >
> > The wiki pages don't seem to offer any light and neither does a large
> > amount
> > of googling.
> >
>
> I've been looking for the same thing for a while, and haven't found
> anything.  I was planning on buying the Technotrend S-1500 (PCI card)
> which appears to be fairly well supported.
>
> I think someone else has said it, but all freesat broadcasts are currently
> DVB-S only.  I can currently get BBCHD and ITVHD using the DVB-S part of
> my HVR-3000 (Analog + DVB-T + DVB-S hybrid card)
>
> I think that DVB-S2 support in Linux is still fairly new, and not
> officially supported by (m)any apps (VDR or MythTv)
>
> Robert.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-dvb mailing list
> linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
> http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
>

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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Mike Beeson]

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Thanks. I see what you mean about saturating the USB bus, but I would be
using USB2 devices on seperate busses (AMD 780G motherboard).

Assuming that this works okay, nobody has voiced that having two of the same
device under linux is going to be a problem?

Thanks,

Mike.


2008/6/9 Another Sillyname <anothersname@googlemail.com>:

> Mike
>
> Bandwidth is a problem for Freesat HD.....on DVB-T the BBC test in HD
> was using up to 24mbps as against a 'normal' channel using
> 4-6Mbps....I don't know the Sat numbers but would expect them to be in
> the same order.
>
> If you want to record more then 1 HD channel at a time you could well
> start to saturate the USB bus (Some PC's have different USB devices on
> different busses so it's worthy checking).....the other issue I've
> found is that USB devices can run a bit 'warm' and have no real
> cooling....this can cause cutouts in warm weather (never used to be a
> problem in the UK but has been the last few summers).
>
> J
>
> 2008/6/9 Mike Beeson <michaelbeeson@gmail.com>:
> > Thanks everyone. This is really helpful info.
> >
> > I'd like to go DVB-S2 for future compatibility as I don't want to junk
> the
> > tuners and get new ones if the BBC or ITV decide to go to DVB-S2. It
> looks
> > like the Technotrend S3600 is the best option at the moment.
> >
> > My main concern is having two of these USB and whether I will get any
> > trouble with this??
> >
> > Mike.
> >
> >
> > On 09/06/2008, Robert <RobertCL@iname.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, June 9, 2008 1:30 pm, Mike Beeson wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > I've searched high and low, but can't find a product (either USB, PCI
> or
> >> > PCI-E) that can allow me to have twin tuners and pick up the UK
> freesat
> >> > service (with BBC and ITV HD content). Does such a thing exist?
> >> >
> >> > I wouldn't mid going with 2 single tuner USB products, but even then
> I'm
> >> > not
> >> > sure what is required.
> >> >
> >> > The wiki pages don't seem to offer any light and neither does a large
> >> > amount
> >> > of googling.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I've been looking for the same thing for a while, and haven't found
> >> anything.  I was planning on buying the Technotrend S-1500 (PCI card)
> >> which appears to be fairly well supported.
> >>
> >> I think someone else has said it, but all freesat broadcasts are
> currently
> >> DVB-S only.  I can currently get BBCHD and ITVHD using the DVB-S part of
> >> my HVR-3000 (Analog + DVB-T + DVB-S hybrid card)
> >>
> >> I think that DVB-S2 support in Linux is still fairly new, and not
> >> officially supported by (m)any apps (VDR or MythTv)
> >>
> >> Robert.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> linux-dvb mailing list
> >> linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
> >> http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > linux-dvb mailing list
> > linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
> > http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
> >
>

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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Robert]

On Mon, June 9, 2008 3:08 pm, Another Sillyname wrote:
> Surely the current DVB-S/S2 cards support multirec? (Assuming the
> channels are on the same Mux and use the same polarisation).
>
> J

Indeed they do, __assuming the channels are on the same Mux__ - which in
reality means I can record BBC1/2/3/4 or ITV1/2/3/4 or C4/FilmFour/???
simultaneously using a single DVB-S tuner.

Based on my personal viewing habits, a single DVB-S card is fine most of
the time, but I think 2 or 3 would be a better number!  The old "more
really is better".  :-)


>
> 2008/6/9 Robert <RobertCL@iname.com>:
>> On Mon, June 9, 2008 1:30 pm, Mike Beeson wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've searched high and low, but can't find a product (either USB, PCI
>>> or
>>> PCI-E) that can allow me to have twin tuners and pick up the UK freesat
>>> service (with BBC and ITV HD content). Does such a thing exist?
>>>
>>> I wouldn't mid going with 2 single tuner USB products, but even then
>>> I'm
>>> not
>>> sure what is required.
>>>
>>> The wiki pages don't seem to offer any light and neither does a large
>>> amount
>>> of googling.
>>>
>>
>> I've been looking for the same thing for a while, and haven't found
>> anything.  I was planning on buying the Technotrend S-1500 (PCI card)
>> which appears to be fairly well supported.
>>
>> I think someone else has said it, but all freesat broadcasts are
>> currently
>> DVB-S only.  I can currently get BBCHD and ITVHD using the DVB-S part of
>> my HVR-3000 (Analog + DVB-T + DVB-S hybrid card)
>>
>> I think that DVB-S2 support in Linux is still fairly new, and not
>> officially supported by (m)any apps (VDR or MythTv)
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> linux-dvb mailing list
>> linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
>> http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
>>
>



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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Goga777]

> I think that DVB-S2 support in Linux is still fairly new, and not
> officially supported by (m)any apps (VDR or MythTv)

vdr 1.7.0 already has dvb-s2 support

Goga


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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[hermann pitton]

Hi,

Am Montag, den 09.06.2008, 23:55 +0400 schrieb Goga777:
> > I think that DVB-S2 support in Linux is still fairly new, and not
> > officially supported by (m)any apps (VDR or MythTv)
> 
> vdr 1.7.0 already has dvb-s2 support
> 
> Goga
> 
> 

to come back to the subject.

As already pointed out by others, one currently don't need any S2 stuff
for example for BBC HD. There is a full coverage of the current European
football championship stuff. The European Song Contest, brain damaged
since aeons, was amazing with the comments there, and within that, some
remaining Royal or other snobism is easy to take ;)

So it is a good opportunity to test, if current hardware in use is still
sufficent, what are current limitations of free codecs concerning
multithreading on a quad core, dual core, related kernel versions,
binary driver stuff etc ;).

All such we could collect before really burning money for some full HD
display or paying for encrypted transmissions with unsure status.

Cheers,
Hermann







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[linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Tim Hewett]

Mike,

No need to worry about having two of the same D-SAT device so ling as  
they are both receiving their signal from the same satellite, e.g.  
28East in your case. One will be adaptor 0 and the other will be  
adaptor 1. If they don't receive the signal from the same satellite  
(say one is on 28East and the other on 19.2East) then it might be  
difficult to identify which is which since they may not be assigned  
the same adaptor number each time the PC is booted.

FYI my system has 3 D-SAT cards (all of the same device), one DVB-S2  
card and three DVB-T USB sticks (all different types). The 2GHz AMD64  
X2 PC will happily simultaneously record an entire transponder from  
each of the satellite cards plus one channel from each of the DVB-T  
devices. The only issue is that no other activity must be allowed to  
occur on the hard disk being used for recording or else it won't keep  
up with the data rate. Two of the DVB-T sticks support recording  
entire multiplexes, but doing that would probably go beyond what the  
hard disk can cope with and I've not tried it.

|n my experience recording entire transponders is a good idea even if  
you only want one or two channels from it, because every now and again  
the BBC and ITV change the PIDs of their channels - if you record by  
specifying PIDs you may find you get no recording when the PIDs  
change. By recording the whole transponder you get everything  
regardless of PID changes, and then afterwards you can extract the  
channel(s) you want using ts2ps (from dvb-mpegtools) specifying the  
current PIDs for the channel. You need plenty of disk space to do this  
though.

Tim.

> Thanks. I see what you mean about saturating the USB bus, but I  
> would be using USB2 devices on seperate busses (AMD 780G  
> motherboard). Assuming that this works okay, nobody has voiced that  
> having two of the same device under linux is going to be a problem?  
> Thanks, Mike.

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Re: [linux-dvb] UK Freesat twin tuner USB/PCI/PCI-E

[Janne Grunau]

On Wednesday 11 June 2008 13:36:42 Tim Hewett wrote:
> Mike,
>
> No need to worry about having two of the same D-SAT device so ling as
> they are both receiving their signal from the same satellite, e.g.
> 28East in your case. One will be adaptor 0 and the other will be
> adaptor 1. If they don't receive the signal from the same satellite
> (say one is on 28East and the other on 19.2East) then it might be
> difficult to identify which is which since they may not be assigned
> the same adaptor number each time the PC is booted.

>From 2.6.26 (or current v4l-dvb hg) on all the frontend modules have a 
adapter_nr module option which allows to specify which adapter numbers 
that frontend should prefer. eg. dvb-usb-dib0700 
adapter_nr=7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0 for reverse allocation of adapter numbers 
for the dvb-usb-dib0700 modul. This only helps if the cards use 
different frontend modules. OTOH the ordering is more stable if the 
devices use the same module.

> |n my experience recording entire transponders is a good idea even if
> you only want one or two channels from it, because every now and
> again the BBC and ITV change the PIDs of their channels - if you
> record by specifying PIDs you may find you get no recording when the
> PIDs change. By recording the whole transponder you get everything
> regardless of PID changes, and then afterwards you can extract the
> channel(s) you want using ts2ps (from dvb-mpegtools) specifying the
> current PIDs for the channel. You need plenty of disk space to do
> this though.

Using an application like MythTV or vdr for recording would solve this 
two. They handle the pid changes during the recording automatically and 
record happily more than one program from the same transponder up to 
the whole transponder. HD speed is might be a little bit more critical 
due to more independent streams but even the whole tranponder data rate 
(max 50mbps) is small compared two the speed of modern HD (above 100 
mbyte/s). MythTV will also happily distribute recordings over multiple 
discs.

Janne


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