Re: [linux-dvb] [ANNOUNCE] DVB API improvements

[Christophe Thommeret <hftom@free.fr>]

Le Thursday 25 September 2008 04:49:36 Markus Rechberger, vous avez écrit :
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Michael Krufky <mkrufky@linuxtv.org> wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Markus Rechberger
> >
> > <mrechberger@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:41 PM, VDR User <user.vdr@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab
> >>>
> >>> <mchehab@infradead.org> wrote:
> >>>> The decision were already taken by the group.
> >>>>
> >>>> It should be noticed also that the public announcement took some time
> >>>> to be ready, since we all carefully reviewed it to reflect the
> >>>> understanding that the group had.
> >>>>
> >>>> Both API's work, and people needed to choose between one of the
> >>>> proposals.
> >>>>
> >>>> Each one there had enough time to read and understand each proposal,
> >>>> since the patches were available more than one week before the
> >>>> meeting, and everybody were aware that the decision are scheduled to
> >>>> happen during LPC.
> >>>>
> >>>> Each one voted based on their own technical analysis, on a meeting
> >>>> that took about 2:30 hours, on the day after the presentations. People
> >>>> had enough time there to discuss, explain their ideas with the help of
> >>>> a whiteboard, decide and improve the proposal.
> >>>>
> >>>> S2API was choosen, since it was considered the better proposal for
> >>>> everybody there. None of the presents voted for Multiproto.
> >>>>
> >>>> Now that the decision were already taken, it is not time anymore to
> >>>> argue in favor to any other proposals. We need to move ahead and
> >>>> finally add support for DVB-S2 and the remaining missing digital TV's
> >>>> at kernel.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you and everyone else involved on adding support for the missing
> >>>> standards.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's move to the next step: finally add API changes and drivers for
> >>>> DVB-S2 and prepare support for the remaining missing standards.
> >>>
> >>> It's no secret to anyone that there has been foul play, and blatantly
> >>> clear there is bias against Manu himself, and multiproto as a result,
> >>> based on personal differences & past conflicts.  You can't possibly
> >>> expect the dvb community to believe a fair & balanced meeting took
> >>> place to discuss these proposals when half the people there already
> >>> signed on for s2api, and the other half don't have the knowledge &
> >>> experience with dvb to make well-informed decisions.  You can't
> >>> possibly think people will believe any of you (who've openly admitted
> >>> support for s2api) spent 2 seconds defending multiproto, or even
> >>> assessing the proposal from an unbias technical standpoint.
> >>>
> >>> It's very convenient that you've completely ignored multiple requests
> >>> for more in-depth details that actually prove your points have real
> >>> technical merit and aren't just the result of some self-interest
> >>> politics and b.s.  Yet, you had no problem writing paragraphs about
> >>> how the decision has been made and everyone should just accept it.
> >>> Sorry, people aren't going to just accept it because this whole thing
> >>> has been tainted by misleading people, misrepresenting the truth, and
> >>> sometimes flat out lying.
> >>>
> >>> Valuable members of the community have turned, and are turning away
> >>> because of how poorly dvb has been maintained, and how self-serving
> >>> some people act.  I'm thankful that more people are being exposed &
> >>> becoming aware of what's been going on in hopes that at the very least
> >>> some kind of steps will be taken to stop the misuse & abuse of power
> >>> at the front of the dvb train.
> >>>
> >>> Again, if there is truth to your claims that s2api is the best
> >>> technical solution, then convince us all by providing tangible proof
> >>> rather then expecting everyone to take your word for it while ignoring
> >>> our requests for such information.  You have an obligation to the
> >>> community to justify your actions, and be held accountable for them.
> >>
> >> There hasn't been much positive feedback here! How about let's talk to
> >> split the v4l and dvb development in order to not give Mauro the full
> >> authority over the whole
> >> 2 subsystems where he hardly anything contributed (to the second part).
> >>
> >> Don't see this as a flamewar, Andrew Morton and a few others are
> >> following that discussion now.
> >>
> >> Mauro as for you try to justify your step technically, the only point
> >> we've seen for now was from
> >> Patrick Boettcher (which was a good one from his side) but also the
> >> other involved people (within that
> >> 8 people group in Portland should point out their opinion and
> >> technical objections/reasons now).
> >>
> >> Officially it looks like you had 3 people supporting the Stevens
> >> proposal and 5 people who didn't know about
> >> the framework at all and explaining them that the DVB-S2 step is the
> >> better one to go whereas you had
> >> noone representing the multiproto path. Such a vote is highly doubtful
> >> then.
> >>
> >> Hans Hverkuil:
> >> I saw you in IRC that you support that proposal please also state out
> >> your opinion and/or ask your questions
> >> what/why things have been done like they are done in the multiproto
> >> tree and why you don't support it.
> >>
> >> It finally can really end up with a good solution either multiproto or
> >> S2 but everyone should understand and not only
> >> a few people.
> >>
> >> Markus
> >
> > Markus,
> >
> > After over two years, a decision has been made.  Up until now, many
> > people have been unhappy.  Now less people can be unhappy.  An
> > extension to the api has been merged, and now we can move forward.
> >
> > There have been enough debates on the mailing lists to date, and there
> > is enough information available about each proposal and all of the
> > details surrounding them.  We need not hash this out again here.
> >
> > Nobody wants to debate this any more -- a better use of our time is to
> > start working on userspace applications for the new supported
> > standards.  Please redirect your energy towards something creative.
> >
> > Make love, not war.
>
> sure state out technical reasons and that's what it is about otherwise
> a serious split should happen asap.
> I personally invite you to be the first one here!
>
> Markus

Markus,

As a reminder, the democracy way is :

1) debates
2) vote

not the other way round ;)

-- 
Christophe Thommeret


_______________________________________________
linux-dvb mailing list
linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb