HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[James Board]

I'm looking for a capture card for a Linux system.  I'd like to be able to capture Component as well as HDMI (from non-encrypted non-HDCP) sources.  I'd also like to capture the raw pixels, and not use real-time MPEG encoding.  A lossless output format like huffyuv is okay too.  Are any such cards available for Linux systems?

Also, if this isn't the best place to ask for this kind of thing, can someone then point me to a better place/website?

RE: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Steve Cookson]

Hi Guys,

> I'm looking for a capture card for a Linux 
> system.  I'd like to be able to capture Component 
> as well as HDMI (from non-encrypted non-HDCP) 
> sources.  I'd also like to capture the raw pixels, 
> and not use real-time MPEG encoding.  A lossless 
> output format like huffyuv is okay too.  Are any 
> such cards available for Linux systems?

I have the same question.  I'm about to try the Blackmagic 
Design Intensity Pro for a bit under $200.  

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CN9GEA

Any othe hints welcomed.

> Also, if this isn't the best place to ask for this 
> kind of thing, can someone then point me to a better place/website?

Ditto,

Regards

Steve

RE: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Steve Cookson]

Hi Jim,

The Balckmagic Card does not seem to have any hardware compression, for me
that's a drawback, but if that's what you want it may be the right thing.

I want to avoid RAID 0 disks if I can.

It appears to be supported by Linux in the GStreamer bad pluggins, it's
called decklinksrc.  There is another allied one called the DeckLink mini
recorder also from Blackmagic PCIe for $145  it's on the same site, so you
might like to have a look at that too.

Blackmagic also provide a Linux SDK and some linux tools.  If you can't find
them I'll send you a link.

I'm going to buy one for testing over the next month or so, so if you want
to keep in touch, I'll let you know how it goes.

Regards

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: James Board [mailto:jpboard2@yahoo.com] 
Sent: 18 June 2013 13:19
To: Steve Cookson
Subject: Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

Hi Steve,

I haven't found a Capture card yet.  The KernelLabs drivers are only
available to commercial buyers, not for personal use.

The Blackmagic card you mentioned looks good.  Do you know if that card
captures in a raw uncompressed format?  Also, do you know if it's supported
by Linux?

Jim





----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Cookson <it@sca-uk.com>
To: 'James Board' <jpboard2@yahoo.com>; linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

Hi Guys,

> I'm looking for a capture card for a Linux 
> system.  I'd like to be able to capture Component 
> as well as HDMI (from non-encrypted non-HDCP) 
> sources.  I'd also like to capture the raw pixels, 
> and not use real-time MPEG encoding.  A lossless 
> output format like huffyuv is okay too.  Are any 
> such cards available for Linux systems?

I have the same question.  I'm about to try the Blackmagic 
Design Intensity Pro for a bit under $200.  

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CN9GEA

Any othe hints welcomed.

> Also, if this isn't the best place to ask for this 
> kind of thing, can someone then point me to a better place/website?

Ditto,

Regards

Steve

RE: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Steve Cookson]

Hi Jim,

> I don't want to configure a RAID either, but if I purchase one SSD with
400 MB/sec write speeds, that might be good.

Hmm... nice idea.  Did you have any particular model in mind?  If you had a
link, I might be interested. I wouldn't know about sizing.  I don't know how
much space HD raw video takes up per hour, say.

On the other hand, maybe I could configure it to use the SSD for temporary
files while GStreamer did software compression.

Let me know what you think.

Regards

Steve

Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Daniel Glöckner]

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 05:55:15PM -0300, Steve Cookson wrote:
> > I don't want to configure a RAID either, but if I purchase one SSD with
> 400 MB/sec write speeds, that might be good.
> 
> Hmm... nice idea.  Did you have any particular model in mind?  If you had a
> link, I might be interested. I wouldn't know about sizing.  I don't know how
> much space HD raw video takes up per hour, say.

That's easy. My current video mode is 24 bit 1920x1080 at 50 fps.
So there are 3*1920*1080*50 bytes per second or about 1.1TB per hour.
But you won't be able to capture all frames with that card. The single
lane PCIe 1.x bus will max out at 200~250MB/s.

  Daniel

RE: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Charlie X. Liu]

Right -- not practical, since you need 1920*1080*3*50 = 311.04MB/s bandwidth
to transfer from PCIe and save the raw date onto a SSD, at which the PCIe
1.x link x1 (max 250MB/s) can not really meet such requirement. 

Well, PCIe 2.x link x1 can meet since its max is 500MB/s. Or, using YUYV, a
more common format, would be fine, since it requires 207.36MB/s and reduces
the storage requirement from 1.119744GB (1920*1080*3*50*60*60, with RGB
format) to 0.746496GB (1920*1080*2*50*60*60, with YUYV format).

Best,

Charlie X. Liu


-----Original Message-----
From: linux-media-owner@vger.kernel.org
[mailto:linux-media-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Glöckner
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:07 PM
To: Steve Cookson
Cc: 'James Board'; linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 05:55:15PM -0300, Steve Cookson wrote:
> > I don't want to configure a RAID either, but if I purchase one SSD 
> > with
> 400 MB/sec write speeds, that might be good.
> 
> Hmm... nice idea.  Did you have any particular model in mind?  If you 
> had a link, I might be interested. I wouldn't know about sizing.  I 
> don't know how much space HD raw video takes up per hour, say.

That's easy. My current video mode is 24 bit 1920x1080 at 50 fps.
So there are 3*1920*1080*50 bytes per second or about 1.1TB per hour.
But you won't be able to capture all frames with that card. The single lane
PCIe 1.x bus will max out at 200~250MB/s.

  Daniel
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Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[James Board]

You are right.  According to your numbers, this card can't work.  So why would BlackMagic design an HDMI capture card with only one PCIe lane if it can't possibly work?   It must work somehow.  I must be missing some crucial piece of information.

The card doesn't support hardware encoding, right?  If so, raw pixels are the only output.  Maybe the card uses more than one PCIe lane?  What makes you think the card only uses a single lane?  Are they using lossless compression to get the raw pixels data rate under 200-250 MB/sec, which is the PCIe speed?
 
Jim




----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Glöckner <daniel-gl@gmx.net>
To: Steve Cookson <it@sca-uk.com>
Cc: 'James Board' <jpboard2@yahoo.com>; linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 05:55:15PM -0300, Steve Cookson wrote:
> > I don't want to configure a RAID either, but if I purchase one SSD with
> 400 MB/sec write speeds, that might be good.
> 
> Hmm... nice idea.  Did you have any particular model in mind?  If you had a
> link, I might be interested. I wouldn't know about sizing.  I don't know how
> much space HD raw video takes up per hour, say.

That's easy. My current video mode is 24 bit 1920x1080 at 50 fps.
So there are 3*1920*1080*50 bytes per second or about 1.1TB per hour.
But you won't be able to capture all frames with that card. The single
lane PCIe 1.x bus will max out at 200~250MB/s.

  Daniel

Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Bjørn Mork]

James Board <jpboard2@yahoo.com> writes:

> You are right.  According to your numbers, this card can't work.  So
> why would BlackMagic design an HDMI capture card with only one PCIe
> lane if it can't possibly work?   It must work somehow.  I must be
> missing some crucial piece of information.
>
> The card doesn't support hardware encoding, right?  If so, raw pixels
> are the only output.  Maybe the card uses more than one PCIe lane? 
> What makes you think the card only uses a single lane?

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity/techspecs/ says so.
It also says

 HD Format Support: 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 1080p23.98, 1080p24,
                    1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p30, 720p50, 720p59.94 and
                    720p60.

which makes the 1080p50 calculation a bit irrelevant.

> Are they using lossless compression to get the raw pixels data rate
> under 200-250 MB/sec, which is the PCIe speed?

None of the supported formats need more than ~180 MB/sec.


Bjørn

RE: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Charlie X. Liu]

If 1080i60 or 1080p30 as max supported, the bandwidth requirement would be 124.416MB/s (1920*1080*2*30, in YUV422 format). Make sense and it can pass through over a PCIe lane x1.


-----Original Message-----
From: linux-media-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-media-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of Bjørn Mork
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 7:10 AM
To: James Board
Cc: Daniel Glöckner; Steve Cookson; linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

James Board <jpboard2@yahoo.com> writes:

> You are right.  According to your numbers, this card can't work.  So 
> why would BlackMagic design an HDMI capture card with only one PCIe 
> lane if it can't possibly work?   It must work somehow.  I must be 
> missing some crucial piece of information.
>
> The card doesn't support hardware encoding, right?  If so, raw pixels 
> are the only output.  Maybe the card uses more than one PCIe lane?
> What makes you think the card only uses a single lane?

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity/techspecs/ says so.
It also says

 HD Format Support: 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 1080p23.98, 1080p24,
                    1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p30, 720p50, 720p59.94 and
                    720p60.

which makes the 1080p50 calculation a bit irrelevant.

> Are they using lossless compression to get the raw pixels data rate 
> under 200-250 MB/sec, which is the PCIe speed?

None of the supported formats need more than ~180 MB/sec.


Bjørn
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Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Steven Toth]

> You are right.  According to your numbers, this card can't work.  So why
> would BlackMagic design an HDMI capture card with only one PCIe lane if it
> can't possibly work?   It must work somehow.  I must be missing some crucial
> piece of information.

Blackmagic's Intensity card doesn't support 1080p. None of the raw
video HD cards I've ever worked on do 1080p over pcie x1.

1080i max and it's 8 or 10bit colorspace, not 24bit (IIRC).

--
Steven Toth - Kernel Labs
http://www.kernellabs.com
+1.646.355.8490

Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Daniel Glöckner]

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 08:21:19AM -0600, Steven Toth wrote:
> 1080i max and it's 8 or 10bit colorspace, not 24bit (IIRC).

I think that's 8 or 10bit per component, so 24 or 30bit per pixel.

  Daniel

RE: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

[Charlie X. Liu]

Refer to the discussion at: http://www.amazon.com/Blackmagic-Design-Intensity-Pro-Editing/product-reviews/B001CN9GEA ,
1) It does not support 1080p/60 or 1080p/50;
2) It uses YUV (4:2:2).

Charlie X. Liu


-----Original Message-----
From: linux-media-owner@vger.kernel.org [mailto:linux-media-owner@vger.kernel.org] On Behalf Of James Board
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 6:36 AM
To: Daniel Glöckner; Steve Cookson
Cc: linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

You are right.  According to your numbers, this card can't work.  So why would BlackMagic design an HDMI capture card with only one PCIe lane if it can't possibly work?   It must work somehow.  I must be missing some crucial piece of information.

The card doesn't support hardware encoding, right?  If so, raw pixels are the only output.  Maybe the card uses more than one PCIe lane?  What makes you think the card only uses a single lane?  Are they using lossless compression to get the raw pixels data rate under 200-250 MB/sec, which is the PCIe speed?
 
Jim


----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Glöckner <daniel-gl@gmx.net>
To: Steve Cookson <it@sca-uk.com>
Cc: 'James Board' <jpboard2@yahoo.com>; linux-media@vger.kernel.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: HD Capture Card (HDMI and Component) output raw pixels

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 05:55:15PM -0300, Steve Cookson wrote:
> > I don't want to configure a RAID either, but if I purchase one SSD 
> > with
> 400 MB/sec write speeds, that might be good.
> 
> Hmm... nice idea.  Did you have any particular model in mind?  If you 
> had a link, I might be interested. I wouldn't know about sizing.  I 
> don't know how much space HD raw video takes up per hour, say.

That's easy. My current video mode is 24 bit 1920x1080 at 50 fps.
So there are 3*1920*1080*50 bytes per second or about 1.1TB per hour.
But you won't be able to capture all frames with that card. The single lane PCIe 1.x bus will max out at 200~250MB/s.

  Daniel

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