From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=100.103.45.18 ARC-Seal: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; t=1793059022; b=ki3AIoOSAxk7yq8IDgiyfwgq0FhhGhcZQTewzVOIBw6FEtOwsWCpRjkBZ6koqOYICpl2 y/IN3WIX4GU7Ef2L6cjfVB5plVOdcxAve+nc3yWWLTtoJ2s2Pm+z0fx/DuqBKiN/Tka6C in9CJRHUHtDdjcul83IOVIGkirtutjtCWdriVGnK3SILyoqrsfsUEddPfJ7cMUTq2ByKU TPJ2Yon0OG3o7BZSiI9p3Xjw2qBXdPMmhEquTRuhv6gjPlP2FonMSohmFuACoGtKKb5u6 yfSVojPj3pB/kUGNlzI8MPSEmUOFNCE8zvnLXi7ohO87BqoMeh5aIgxDp/GNFQcxoNw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1793059022; h=Received:DKIM-Signature:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:X-Mailer:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; bh=cU1a69wB5Ljq9e5VBmksBf9LYbZhe9MdXGIUPBs8Ui8=; b=tJeDMxXZIGsHCA2bEWR3stO7TTNbIdgvqxgts+hQB5ptKVQ1vicnk+N8si/FmUK8JDw1 69wfbTXtS/Vm7iviI6JLQBeOYTExUDJy/WtE7NiKqeR3DmACj1Eyidvcl+0jeNKlwyrlp jmP7bqXh6UOFQedJrgccXPA/Wyv37jl7S3l9n8mA+Q7ZsvgUiO24tRUr2xfg7qCaPLMcT QjXXWokwfe7M/Tk5qcPYQyZndIYoVfQ/hRLy5WDvn2Xsykp1MxOIDFko0kiY98+oArcrb Q6i8XCragQmalqQbiqpIJaDI332vDaymR8Afnp3GhXt20QH2oBQFgoM5kzo+oBDI6Zg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=k20260515 header.b=YuHN1UD9; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=100.103.45.18 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (quasi.space.kernel.org [100.103.45.18]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (prime256v1)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAECD606A31A; Mon, 26 Oct 2026 23:57:01 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=k20260515 header.b=YuHN1UD9 Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B60241F01825; Mon, 26 Oct 2026 23:56:59 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kernel.org; s=k20260515; t=1793059021; bh=cU1a69wB5Ljq9e5VBmksBf9LYbZhe9MdXGIUPBs8Ui8=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=YuHN1UD9+UwmzScWhzArb8inBM6srGncP6zy2cm10/JNSNKNQVCSPI9aat64Ejtdt QX1zK/kRo4b8MaBXCG/uKSYZnUqn72FFYyi2yD+vLzlmzb72kbgCAVHl2IWcGyH+75 BlIezlRx4+T8N/7tP0IF7aO7e5aRKe4OH5yyTBYsL5aFKuM6TSbTdtQPvnuMWQc6gs 2zCIdZMAi9JyFUO66IG6ckC35mrstRpu0QZPzulnPDm89MQjL6vNy5WN4JNYvBCfYv kcDI5z1JFXAvO54YIzvCa9W079oGcjYSnYjqsA2DCdw2nOt8E3Grn/t341akfKNDcL xfVjq0Q8TTQrg== Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2026 00:56:56 +0100 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: Linus Torvalds Cc: Sakari Ailus , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Andrew Morton , Linux Media Mailing List , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Hans Verkuil , Laurent Pinchart Subject: Re: [GIT PULL for v7.4] media updates Message-ID: <20261027005656.6ce24b82@foz.lan> In-Reply-To: References: <20261024185058.20410953@foz.lan> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.4.0 (GTK 3.24.52; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) X-Mailing-List: linux-media@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 26 Oct 2026 08:53:07 -1000 Linus Torvalds wrote: > On Mon, 26 Oct 2026 at 08:25, Sakari Ailus wrote: > > > > The patch in question puts camera sensors and related chips in line with > > how the rest of the drivers are selected elsewhere. > > .. and other places could probably be improved too, I agree. > > But this made things *worse*. Much worse. > > The thing is, at least hide them behind some "embedded camera options" > that in turn is hidden behind "EXPERT" or something like that. > > Don't make *normal* people who build their own kernels have to see or know. > > Let's say that you have a laptop or something that actually uses one > of these sensors for a webcam, then it STILL does not help to ask a > user > > "Do you want a driver for the Analog Devices ADV7170 video encoder" > > Because (a) that chip legacy and likely not in any laptop anyway and > (b) even if it was, no laptop user is going to *know* that. > > See what I'm saying? You literally make things worse. Don't do that. > You're making the kernel Kconfig script ask insane questions. They are > insane because you cannot reasonably expect people to actually know > the answer to the questions. > > In other words: don't ask questions that you know the user cannot answer. > > There was a REASON why those menus were hidden. I agree with Linus on that. You're basically rolling back a feature that simplifies a lot the life for normal users: let Kconfig choose options that only a media expert can answer. Now, I understand why it is tempting to do that to help with IPU support: camera sensors can now be easily interchangeable on new Intel hardware. If you look on some drivers from the old days, like bttv, saa7134 and cx88, they had similar problems, but they still do support autoselect mode. For instance, drivers/media/tuners/Kconfig has this: config MEDIA_TUNER tristate depends on (MEDIA_ANALOG_TV_SUPPORT || MEDIA_DIGITAL_TV_SUPPORT || MEDIA_RADIO_SUPPORT || MEDIA_SDR_SUPPORT) && I2C default y select MEDIA_TUNER_XC2028 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT select MEDIA_TUNER_XC5000 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT select MEDIA_TUNER_XC4000 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT select MEDIA_TUNER_MT20XX if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT select MEDIA_TUNER_TDA8290 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT select MEDIA_TUNER_TEA5761 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT && MEDIA_RADIO_SUPPORT select MEDIA_TUNER_TEA5767 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT && MEDIA_RADIO_SUPPORT select MEDIA_TUNER_SIMPLE if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT select MEDIA_TUNER_TDA9887 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT select MEDIA_TUNER_MC44S803 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT which is meant to support the most popular I2C tuners. In the specific case of IPU (and atomisp, once moved out of staging), the right solution would be to have something similar to it, e.g. something like: config VIDEO_INTEL_IPU6 select VIDEO_OV2680 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT select VIDEO_OV2685 if MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT ... for each sensor that might be possible to be used there. Another alternative would be to do it the reverse way, e.g.: config VIDEO_OV2680 default MEDIA_SUBDRV_AUTOSELECT && VIDEO_INTEL_IPU6 or, maybe even better: # Make setup easier by identifying PC MC-based drivers on a single place config MEDIA_SENSOR_AUTOSELECT depends on VIDEO_INTEL_IPU6 default y config VIDEO_OV2680 default MEDIA_SENSOR_AUTOSELECT Placing MEDIA_SENSOR_AUTOSELECT on sensor drivers. We may need similar code also for other I2C drivers that could be used on IPU. Thanks, Mauro