[linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[gimli]

What about syncing up with Igor M. Liplianin's
S2API tree to get more S2API drivers in the
v4l-hg tree ?

cu

Edgar (gimli) Hucek


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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[Oleg Roitburd]

Hi,

2008/12/18 gimli <gimli@dark-green.com>:
> What about syncing up with Igor M. Liplianin's
> S2API tree to get more S2API drivers in the
> v4l-hg tree ?

Very good idea, but it's impossible. For sync Mauro needs ACK or
Sign-Off from Manu. And they blocks all changes. Politic.

Regards
Oleg Roitburd

P.S. For me works s2-liplianin with tt s2-3200 much stabler than v4l-dvb.

P.P.S. What's about signal statistic for stv0899 in v4l-dvb? What's
about another devices based on stv0899 (mantis, USB)?

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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[gimli]

The DVB-S2 stuff smells all like a big bullshit.
In the first step a big hurry to get S2API in
the mainline kernel and now nothing at all from
the DVB-S2 front. This is a completly big mess
in my eyes.

cu

Edgar (gimli) Hucek

P.S.: Childish political games which are played on
the shoulders of the users. Hurray, well done.

> Hi,
>
> 2008/12/18 gimli <gimli@dark-green.com>:
>> What about syncing up with Igor M. Liplianin's
>> S2API tree to get more S2API drivers in the
>> v4l-hg tree ?
>
> Very good idea, but it's impossible. For sync Mauro needs ACK or
> Sign-Off from Manu. And they blocks all changes. Politic.
>
> Regards
> Oleg Roitburd
>
> P.S. For me works s2-liplianin with tt s2-3200 much stabler than v4l-dvb.
>
> P.P.S. What's about signal statistic for stv0899 in v4l-dvb? What's
> about another devices based on stv0899 (mantis, USB)?
>
>
>



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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[VDR User]

I was under the impression that stb0899+mantis would be coming soon to
the main v4l tree.  I sure hope it's true because trying to have a
usable dvb box when you need to use all these different trees is a
complete mess.  In the worst case scenario I guess I'll have to
replace all my cards with ones I know are properly supported in v4l.
I hope that won't be required though!

And I also don't believe it's just coincidence that there was a huge
rush to get s2api in the kernel and the moment it happened, poof!
Almost nothing came from it.  You'd be a fool not to question that.

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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[sinter]

Am Freitag 19 Dezember 2008 18:01:40 schrieb gimli:
> The DVB-S2 stuff smells all like a big bullshit.
> In the first step a big hurry to get S2API in
> the mainline kernel and now nothing at all from
> the DVB-S2 front. This is a completly big mess
> in my eyes.
>
> cu
>
> Edgar (gimli) Hucek
>
> P.S.: Childish political games which are played on
> the shoulders of the users. Hurray, well done.

Yes, Edgar, exactly: This is what the name Manu A. stands for since this guy 
was recruited as a DVB "maintainer" by Johannes Stezenbach:

Kiddish political games which are played on the shoulders of the users.
Also those kiddish games are ideal to hide the discovery of one's own personal 
mediocrity / incapability in coding issues.

There are people who ask themselves why Manu A. still owes a repository at 
linuxtv.org. I guess this runs under "utilitarianism of human beings".

And also: a huge mass of (inactive) nominal members looks nice for a career at 
redhat.com, doesn't it?


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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[Markus Rechberger]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:43 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
> Am Freitag 19 Dezember 2008 18:01:40 schrieb gimli:
>> The DVB-S2 stuff smells all like a big bullshit.
>> In the first step a big hurry to get S2API in
>> the mainline kernel and now nothing at all from
>> the DVB-S2 front. This is a completly big mess
>> in my eyes.
>>
>> cu
>>
>> Edgar (gimli) Hucek
>>
>> P.S.: Childish political games which are played on
>> the shoulders of the users. Hurray, well done.
>
> Yes, Edgar, exactly: This is what the name Manu A. stands for since this guy
> was recruited as a DVB "maintainer" by Johannes Stezenbach:
>
> Kiddish political games which are played on the shoulders of the users.
> Also those kiddish games are ideal to hide the discovery of one's own personal
> mediocrity / incapability in coding issues.
>
> There are people who ask themselves why Manu A. still owes a repository at
> linuxtv.org. I guess this runs under "utilitarianism of human beings".
>
> And also: a huge mass of (inactive) nominal members looks nice for a career at
> redhat.com, doesn't it?
>

This looks like a respect email. Best would have been if Manu wouldn't
have had released
any code and would just have forwarded his code to his friends they
wouldn't have complained and
even probably would have paid some beer and invited him for some parties.
It takes time to get documentation for a certain chip, to get the
agreement for it and finally to write
a driver for it. As user it's certainly easier to complain about all
that and think that everything's free.
Even google is playing around with the content of the mails I send
here and earning money by doing
statistics out of that.

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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[sinter]

Am Friday 19 December 2008 20:29:52 schrieben Sie:
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:43 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
> > Am Freitag 19 Dezember 2008 18:01:40 schrieb gimli:
> >> The DVB-S2 stuff smells all like a big bullshit.
> >> In the first step a big hurry to get S2API in
> >> the mainline kernel and now nothing at all from
> >> the DVB-S2 front. This is a completly big mess
> >> in my eyes.
> >>
> >> cu
> >>
> >> Edgar (gimli) Hucek
> >>
> >> P.S.: Childish political games which are played on
> >> the shoulders of the users. Hurray, well done.
> >
> > Yes, Edgar, exactly: This is what the name Manu A. stands for since this
> > guy was recruited as a DVB "maintainer" by Johannes Stezenbach:
> >
> > Kiddish political games which are played on the shoulders of the users.
> > Also those kiddish games are ideal to hide the discovery of one's own
> > personal mediocrity / incapability in coding issues.
> >
> > There are people who ask themselves why Manu A. still owes a repository
> > at linuxtv.org. I guess this runs under "utilitarianism of human beings".
> >
> > And also: a huge mass of (inactive) nominal members looks nice for a
> > career at redhat.com, doesn't it?
>
> This looks like a respect email.

No, not in any context at all!
It's you who ignores the sarcasm behind my words!
Just use your brain, austrian!

> Best would have been if Manu wouldn't
> have had released
> any code and would just have forwarded his code to his friends they
> wouldn't have complained and
> even probably would have paid some beer and invited him for some parties.

YES! This would have made everything easier: NOT to have persons like YOU and 
Manu A. around here, as nobody needs anti-team working big-mouth-nut-shuts 
here.

> It takes time to get documentation for a certain chip, to get the
> agreement for it and finally to write
> a driver for it.

Yesno! It also takes social behaviour to maintain written code, and if someone 
does not respect social behaviour but claims to be chief DVB maintainer at the 
same time then this indian person called A. is counter productive / 
ridiculous!
And that's all about him.
We gotta get rid of people like you, Markus, and Manu A. too because you two 
are like an incarnation of the living copounter productive pest, arenn't you?

> As user it's certainly easier to complain about all
> that and think that everything's free.
> Even google is playing around with the content of the mails I send
> here and earning money by doing
> statistics out of that.

Stop ranting, Austrian! Shut up man!!!!


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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[Markus Rechberger]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:58 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
> Am Friday 19 December 2008 20:29:52 schrieben Sie:
>> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:43 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
>> > Am Freitag 19 Dezember 2008 18:01:40 schrieb gimli:
>> >> The DVB-S2 stuff smells all like a big bullshit.
>> >> In the first step a big hurry to get S2API in
>> >> the mainline kernel and now nothing at all from
>> >> the DVB-S2 front. This is a completly big mess
>> >> in my eyes.
>> >>
>> >> cu
>> >>
>> >> Edgar (gimli) Hucek
>> >>
>> >> P.S.: Childish political games which are played on
>> >> the shoulders of the users. Hurray, well done.
>> >
>> > Yes, Edgar, exactly: This is what the name Manu A. stands for since this
>> > guy was recruited as a DVB "maintainer" by Johannes Stezenbach:
>> >
>> > Kiddish political games which are played on the shoulders of the users.
>> > Also those kiddish games are ideal to hide the discovery of one's own
>> > personal mediocrity / incapability in coding issues.
>> >
>> > There are people who ask themselves why Manu A. still owes a repository
>> > at linuxtv.org. I guess this runs under "utilitarianism of human beings".
>> >
>> > And also: a huge mass of (inactive) nominal members looks nice for a
>> > career at redhat.com, doesn't it?
>>
>> This looks like a respect email.
>
> No, not in any context at all!
> It's you who ignores the sarcasm behind my words!
> Just use your brain, austrian!
>
>> Best would have been if Manu wouldn't
>> have had released
>> any code and would just have forwarded his code to his friends they
>> wouldn't have complained and
>> even probably would have paid some beer and invited him for some parties.
>
> YES! This would have made everything easier: NOT to have persons like YOU and
> Manu A. around here, as nobody needs anti-team working big-mouth-nut-shuts
> here.
>
>> It takes time to get documentation for a certain chip, to get the
>> agreement for it and finally to write
>> a driver for it.
>
> Yesno! It also takes social behaviour to maintain written code, and if someone
> does not respect social behaviour but claims to be chief DVB maintainer at the
> same time then this indian person called A. is counter productive /
> ridiculous!
> And that's all about him.
> We gotta get rid of people like you, Markus, and Manu A. too because you two
> are like an incarnation of the living copounter productive pest, arenn't you?
>
>> As user it's certainly easier to complain about all
>> that and think that everything's free.
>> Even google is playing around with the content of the mails I send
>> here and earning money by doing
>> statistics out of that.
>
> Stop ranting, Austrian! Shut up man!!!!
>
>

ah this is Uwe, welcome back.

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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[Michael Krufky]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Markus Rechberger
<mrechberger@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:58 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
>> Am Friday 19 December 2008 20:29:52 schrieben Sie:
>>> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:43 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
>>> > Am Freitag 19 Dezember 2008 18:01:40 schrieb gimli:
>>> >> The DVB-S2 stuff smells all like a big bullshit.
>>> >> In the first step a big hurry to get S2API in
>>> >> the mainline kernel and now nothing at all from
>>> >> the DVB-S2 front. This is a completly big mess
>>> >> in my eyes.
>>> >>
>>> >> cu
>>> >>
>>> >> Edgar (gimli) Hucek
>>> >>
>>> >> P.S.: Childish political games which are played on
>>> >> the shoulders of the users. Hurray, well done.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, Edgar, exactly: This is what the name Manu A. stands for since this
>>> > guy was recruited as a DVB "maintainer" by Johannes Stezenbach:
>>> >
>>> > Kiddish political games which are played on the shoulders of the users.
>>> > Also those kiddish games are ideal to hide the discovery of one's own
>>> > personal mediocrity / incapability in coding issues.
>>> >
>>> > There are people who ask themselves why Manu A. still owes a repository
>>> > at linuxtv.org. I guess this runs under "utilitarianism of human beings".
>>> >
>>> > And also: a huge mass of (inactive) nominal members looks nice for a
>>> > career at redhat.com, doesn't it?
>>>
>>> This looks like a respect email.
>>
>> No, not in any context at all!
>> It's you who ignores the sarcasm behind my words!
>> Just use your brain, austrian!
>>
>>> Best would have been if Manu wouldn't
>>> have had released
>>> any code and would just have forwarded his code to his friends they
>>> wouldn't have complained and
>>> even probably would have paid some beer and invited him for some parties.
>>
>> YES! This would have made everything easier: NOT to have persons like YOU and
>> Manu A. around here, as nobody needs anti-team working big-mouth-nut-shuts
>> here.
>>
>>> It takes time to get documentation for a certain chip, to get the
>>> agreement for it and finally to write
>>> a driver for it.
>>
>> Yesno! It also takes social behaviour to maintain written code, and if someone
>> does not respect social behaviour but claims to be chief DVB maintainer at the
>> same time then this indian person called A. is counter productive /
>> ridiculous!
>> And that's all about him.
>> We gotta get rid of people like you, Markus, and Manu A. too because you two
>> are like an incarnation of the living copounter productive pest, arenn't you?
>>
>>> As user it's certainly easier to complain about all
>>> that and think that everything's free.
>>> Even google is playing around with the content of the mails I send
>>> here and earning money by doing
>>> statistics out of that.
>>
>> Stop ranting, Austrian! Shut up man!!!!
>>
>>
>
> ah this is Uwe, welcome back.



Please stop with the flames... this is ridiculous.

It's true that not everybody gets along well, but it is also true that
both of the developers that you've mentioned here are highly
intelligent and really know how to do what they do.

This is open-source development.  There is no reason to tell somebody
to STOP working for free.

These flames are the reason why the active developers that DO get
stuff done have stopped following the mailing lists.

I have my gmail set to forward mails to me that I'll find interesting,
based on keywords and filters.  Every once in a while, I see a flame
like this and it reminds me why I'd rather write new code than read
about people complaining.

Get over it.  The longer this keeps up, the more of an audience will
be lost.  The amount of people that read this list is dwindling every
day.

Next time you want to flame, think twice.  You might think that you're
making a statement, but all you're doing is pushing the developers
away from the mailing lists.

(all of the above is directed to the flamers) ...

side note:

Markus, you and I should definitely have a beer sometime.  I think
we'd really get along in person.  Emails and chat suck -- you will
never get a feel for personality that way.  Let me know next time
you're in New York City.  I have never been to Europe, but I do hope
to visit one day.

It's snowing here in New York -- I plan to write code all weekend.
Y'all should keep your pants on, and maybe you'll realize that there
really is nothing to complain about.  Free work == no bitching
allowed!

/rant

-Mike

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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[Devin Heitmueller]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Michael Krufky <mkrufky@linuxtv.org> wrote:
> Please stop with the flames... this is ridiculous.
>
> It's true that not everybody gets along well, but it is also true that
> both of the developers that you've mentioned here are highly
> intelligent and really know how to do what they do.
>
> This is open-source development.  There is no reason to tell somebody
> to STOP working for free.
>
> These flames are the reason why the active developers that DO get
> stuff done have stopped following the mailing lists.
>
> I have my gmail set to forward mails to me that I'll find interesting,
> based on keywords and filters.  Every once in a while, I see a flame
> like this and it reminds me why I'd rather write new code than read
> about people complaining.
>
> Get over it.  The longer this keeps up, the more of an audience will
> be lost.  The amount of people that read this list is dwindling every
> day.
>
> Next time you want to flame, think twice.  You might think that you're
> making a statement, but all you're doing is pushing the developers
> away from the mailing lists.
>
> (all of the above is directed to the flamers) ...
>
> side note:
>
> Markus, you and I should definitely have a beer sometime.  I think
> we'd really get along in person.  Emails and chat suck -- you will
> never get a feel for personality that way.  Let me know next time
> you're in New York City.  I have never been to Europe, but I do hope
> to visit one day.
>
> It's snowing here in New York -- I plan to write code all weekend.
> Y'all should keep your pants on, and maybe you'll realize that there
> really is nothing to complain about.  Free work == no bitching
> allowed!
>
> /rant
>
> -Mike

Seconded.

To those of you who are dissatisfied with the speed at which device
support is coming: do what I did a year ago: learn the codebase and
start submitting patches.

This is an understaffed project done by volunteers for no money.
Being abused by users who feel they have some entitlement to having
their devices supported is unacceptable.

If you want commercial level support than I would suggest you find a
consultant that you can pay for such work.

Regards,

Devin

-- 
Devin J. Heitmueller
http://www.devinheitmueller.com
AIM: devinheitmueller

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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[Nicolas Will]

On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 15:47 -0500, Devin Heitmueller wrote:
> > It's snowing here in New York -- I plan to write code all weekend.
> > Y'all should keep your pants on, and maybe you'll realize that there
> > really is nothing to complain about.  Free work == no bitching
> > allowed!
> >
> > /rant
> >
> > -Mike
> 
> Seconded.
> 
> To those of you who are dissatisfied with the speed at which device
> support is coming: do what I did a year ago: learn the codebase and
> start submitting patches.
> 
> This is an understaffed project done by volunteers for no money.
> Being abused by users who feel they have some entitlement to having
> their devices supported is unacceptable.

As a user, even a user who does not know how to code to save his life,
you can do other things to help.

You can start by being polite.

Then you can ask nicely.

In exchange for new code you can take charge of a few things.

For example coders usually hate to document outside of their own code.
Take charge of the wiki page of your device and make sure that it is
clear and up-to-date.

Then prod, poke, ask, politely.

When new code comes in, test, and give feedback, constructive and polite
feedback.

And document some more.

And prod, poke, ask, politely.

and test.. and give feedback... and ask again...

After a while you usually end up with working code, and happy.

And if you stop there because your device is working fine and your job
and family are taking 110% of you time, than sit back and enjoy your
working TV system in the remaining 40%. ;o)

In any case you were not completely selfish.

It worked for me and the Nova-T-500.

Nico
yeah, a bit selfish too...


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[linux-dvb] Adding info to the wiki, Was: Re: S2API drivers sync

[Jos Hoekstra]

Nicolas Will schreef op 19-12-2008 22:08:
> As a user, even a user who does not know how to code to save his life,
> you can do other things to help.
> 
> You can start by being polite.
> 
> Then you can ask nicely.
> 
> In exchange for new code you can take charge of a few things.
> 
> For example coders usually hate to document outside of their own code.
> Take charge of the wiki page of your device and make sure that it is
> clear and up-to-date.
> 
> Then prod, poke, ask, politely.
> 
> When new code comes in, test, and give feedback, constructive and polite
> feedback.
> 
> And document some more.
> 
> And prod, poke, ask, politely.
> 
> and test.. and give feedback... and ask again...
> 
> After a while you usually end up with working code, and happy.
> 
> And if you stop there because your device is working fine and your job
> and family are taking 110% of you time, than sit back and enjoy your
> working TV system in the remaining 40%. ;o)
> 
> In any case you were not completely selfish.
> 
> It worked for me and the Nova-T-500.
> 
> Nico
> yeah, a bit selfish too...

Agreed!

I would like to add some pointers on making the Avermedia Volar X DVB-T 
device work to the wiki, but I'm not sure if this 'supported or unsupported?
Case:
Avermedia Volar X DVB-T with AF9015-NT* & MXL5003S
Works with compiling the source from:
http://linuxtv.org/hg/~anttip/af9015/
and firmware from:
http://www.otit.fi/~crope/v4l-dvb/af9015/af9015_firmware_cutter/firmware_files/

Is it ok if I add it as a minor edit to:

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices#Afatech_AF9013_and_AF9015
?

Regards,

Jos Hoekstra

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Re: [linux-dvb] Adding info to the wiki, Was: Re: S2API drivers sync

[Antti Palosaari]

Jos Hoekstra wrote:
> I would like to add some pointers on making the Avermedia Volar X DVB-T 
> device work to the wiki, but I'm not sure if this 'supported or unsupported?

It is supported. Anyhow, with this tuner driver performance is not 100%. 
Driver merged to the 2.6.28 Kernel.

> Case:
> Avermedia Volar X DVB-T with AF9015-NT* & MXL5003S
> Works with compiling the source from:
> http://linuxtv.org/hg/~anttip/af9015/

You can also use v4l-dvb-master or wait 2.6.28.

> and firmware from:
> http://www.otit.fi/~crope/v4l-dvb/af9015/af9015_firmware_cutter/firmware_files/
> 
> Is it ok if I add it as a minor edit to:
> 
> http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices#Afatech_AF9013_and_AF9015
> ?

yes?

> Regards,
> 
> Jos Hoekstra

regards
Antti
-- 
http://palosaari.fi/

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Re: [linux-dvb] Adding info to the wiki, Was: Re: S2API drivers sync

[Nicolas Will]

On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 23:07 +0100, Jos Hoekstra wrote:
> 
> Is it ok if I add it as a minor edit to:
> 
> http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices#Afatech_AF9013_and_AF9015
> ?

Of course it is. This is also the best place to put the documentation.

You are not going to deface it, and anyway there is a built-in version
control that you can also use.

Nico


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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[Devin Heitmueller]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Nicolas Will <nico@youplala.net> wrote:
> As a user, even a user who does not know how to code to save his life,
> you can do other things to help.
>
> You can start by being polite.
>
> Then you can ask nicely.
>
> In exchange for new code you can take charge of a few things.
>
> For example coders usually hate to document outside of their own code.
> Take charge of the wiki page of your device and make sure that it is
> clear and up-to-date.
>
> Then prod, poke, ask, politely.
>
> When new code comes in, test, and give feedback, constructive and polite
> feedback.
>
> And document some more.
>
> And prod, poke, ask, politely.
>
> and test.. and give feedback... and ask again...
>
> After a while you usually end up with working code, and happy.
>
> And if you stop there because your device is working fine and your job
> and family are taking 110% of you time, than sit back and enjoy your
> working TV system in the remaining 40%. ;o)
>
> In any case you were not completely selfish.
>
> It worked for me and the Nova-T-500.

Nicholas has provided a very good list of constructive ways that
non-developers can improve support for devices.  Here are a few other
ways people can help out:

Improve the wiki:  help out CityK with the linux-dvb/v4l unification
and make sure the information is correct.

Lurk on #linux-dvb and #v4l, and help out less experienced users.  New
users often jump onto those two lists asking for help getting their
devices up and running.  In many cases, their device is supported but
they're just having trouble installing the latest v4l-dvb code or
using tools such as scan, zap, Kaffeine, tvtime, VDR, etc.  Help those
users work through their issues.  If the device doesn't work, walk
them through collecting the necessary debug info required to report
the problem on the mailing list.

Not only are these things helpful to other users - it allows the
developers can focus on adding driver support rather than spending
that time helping out new users...

Devin

-- 
Devin J. Heitmueller
http://www.devinheitmueller.com
AIM: devinheitmueller

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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[sinter]

Am Friday 19 December 2008 21:31:08 schrieben Sie:
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Markus Rechberger
>
> <mrechberger@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:58 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
> >> Am Friday 19 December 2008 20:29:52 schrieben Sie:
> >>> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:43 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>> > Am Freitag 19 Dezember 2008 18:01:40 schrieb gimli:
> >>> >> The DVB-S2 stuff smells all like a big bullshit.
> >>> >> In the first step a big hurry to get S2API in
> >>> >> the mainline kernel and now nothing at all from
> >>> >> the DVB-S2 front. This is a completly big mess
> >>> >> in my eyes.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> cu
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Edgar (gimli) Hucek
> >>> >>
> >>> >> P.S.: Childish political games which are played on
> >>> >> the shoulders of the users. Hurray, well done.
> >>> >
> >>> > Yes, Edgar, exactly: This is what the name Manu A. stands for since
> >>> > this guy was recruited as a DVB "maintainer" by Johannes Stezenbach:
> >>> >
> >>> > Kiddish political games which are played on the shoulders of the
> >>> > users. Also those kiddish games are ideal to hide the discovery of
> >>> > one's own personal mediocrity / incapability in coding issues.
> >>> >
> >>> > There are people who ask themselves why Manu A. still owes a
> >>> > repository at linuxtv.org. I guess this runs under "utilitarianism of
> >>> > human beings".
> >>> >
> >>> > And also: a huge mass of (inactive) nominal members looks nice for a
> >>> > career at redhat.com, doesn't it?
> >>>
> >>> This looks like a respect email.
> >>
> >> No, not in any context at all!
> >> It's you who ignores the sarcasm behind my words!
> >> Just use your brain, austrian!
> >>
> >>> Best would have been if Manu wouldn't
> >>> have had released
> >>> any code and would just have forwarded his code to his friends they
> >>> wouldn't have complained and
> >>> even probably would have paid some beer and invited him for some
> >>> parties.
> >>
> >> YES! This would have made everything easier: NOT to have persons like
> >> YOU and Manu A. around here, as nobody needs anti-team working
> >> big-mouth-nut-shuts here.
> >>
> >>> It takes time to get documentation for a certain chip, to get the
> >>> agreement for it and finally to write
> >>> a driver for it.
> >>
> >> Yesno! It also takes social behaviour to maintain written code, and if
> >> someone does not respect social behaviour but claims to be chief DVB
> >> maintainer at the same time then this indian person called A. is counter
> >> productive / ridiculous!
> >> And that's all about him.
> >> We gotta get rid of people like you, Markus, and Manu A. too because you
> >> two are like an incarnation of the living copounter productive pest,
> >> arenn't you?
> >>
> >>> As user it's certainly easier to complain about all
> >>> that and think that everything's free.
> >>> Even google is playing around with the content of the mails I send
> >>> here and earning money by doing
> >>> statistics out of that.
> >>
> >> Stop ranting, Austrian! Shut up man!!!!
> >
> > ah this is Uwe, welcome back.
>
> Please stop with the flames... this is ridiculous.
>
> It's true that not everybody gets along well, but it is also true that
> both of the developers that you've mentioned here are highly
> intelligent and really know how to do what they do.
>
> This is open-source development.  There is no reason to tell somebody
> to STOP working for free.
>
> These flames are the reason why the active developers that DO get
> stuff done have stopped following the mailing lists.
>
> I have my gmail set to forward mails to me that I'll find interesting,
> based on keywords and filters.  Every once in a while, I see a flame
> like this and it reminds me why I'd rather write new code than read
> about people complaining.
>
> Get over it.  The longer this keeps up, the more of an audience will
> be lost.  The amount of people that read this list is dwindling every
> day.
>
> Next time you want to flame, think twice.  You might think that you're
> making a statement, but all you're doing is pushing the developers
> away from the mailing lists.
>
> (all of the above is directed to the flamers) ...
>
> side note:
>
> Markus, you and I should definitely have a beer sometime.  I think
> we'd really get along in person.  Emails and chat suck -- you will
> never get a feel for personality that way.  Let me know next time
> you're in New York City.  I have never been to Europe, but I do hope
> to visit one day.
>
> It's snowing here in New York -- I plan to write code all weekend.
> Y'all should keep your pants on, and maybe you'll realize that there
> really is nothing to complain about.  Free work == no bitching
> allowed!
>
> /rant
>
> -Mike

Manu Abraham??????
---------------------------------------------------------> /dev/null !!!!!!!!


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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[Christophe Thommeret]

Le vendredi 19 décembre 2008 21:11:11 Markus Rechberger, vous avez écrit :
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 8:58 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
> > Am Friday 19 December 2008 20:29:52 schrieben Sie:
> >> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:43 PM, sinter <sinter.mann@gmx.de> wrote:
> >> > Am Freitag 19 Dezember 2008 18:01:40 schrieb gimli:
> >> >> The DVB-S2 stuff smells all like a big bullshit.
> >> >> In the first step a big hurry to get S2API in
> >> >> the mainline kernel and now nothing at all from
> >> >> the DVB-S2 front. This is a completly big mess
> >> >> in my eyes.
> >> >>
> >> >> cu
> >> >>
> >> >> Edgar (gimli) Hucek
> >> >>
> >> >> P.S.: Childish political games which are played on
> >> >> the shoulders of the users. Hurray, well done.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, Edgar, exactly: This is what the name Manu A. stands for since
> >> > this guy was recruited as a DVB "maintainer" by Johannes Stezenbach:
> >> >
> >> > Kiddish political games which are played on the shoulders of the
> >> > users. Also those kiddish games are ideal to hide the discovery of
> >> > one's own personal mediocrity / incapability in coding issues.
> >> >
> >> > There are people who ask themselves why Manu A. still owes a
> >> > repository at linuxtv.org. I guess this runs under "utilitarianism of
> >> > human beings".
> >> >
> >> > And also: a huge mass of (inactive) nominal members looks nice for a
> >> > career at redhat.com, doesn't it?
> >>
> >> This looks like a respect email.
> >
> > No, not in any context at all!
> > It's you who ignores the sarcasm behind my words!
> > Just use your brain, austrian!
> >
> >> Best would have been if Manu wouldn't
> >> have had released
> >> any code and would just have forwarded his code to his friends they
> >> wouldn't have complained and
> >> even probably would have paid some beer and invited him for some
> >> parties.
> >
> > YES! This would have made everything easier: NOT to have persons like YOU
> > and Manu A. around here, as nobody needs anti-team working
> > big-mouth-nut-shuts here.
> >
> >> It takes time to get documentation for a certain chip, to get the
> >> agreement for it and finally to write
> >> a driver for it.
> >
> > Yesno! It also takes social behaviour to maintain written code, and if
> > someone does not respect social behaviour but claims to be chief DVB
> > maintainer at the same time then this indian person called A. is counter
> > productive / ridiculous!
> > And that's all about him.
> > We gotta get rid of people like you, Markus, and Manu A. too because you
> > two are like an incarnation of the living copounter productive pest,
> > arenn't you?
> >
> >> As user it's certainly easier to complain about all
> >> that and think that everything's free.
> >> Even google is playing around with the content of the mails I send
> >> here and earning money by doing
> >> statistics out of that.
> >
> > Stop ranting, Austrian! Shut up man!!!!
>
> ah this is Uwe, welcome back.

LOL

-- 
Christophe Thommeret


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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[user.vdr]

I fail to see how bashing Manu will bring some much needed drivers to
the v4l/s2api tree any faster.  There's nothing to be gained by
name-calling and so on.  In the end I think everyone would like the
same thing...stable working drivers for many devices to choose from.
If all the energy is spent on attacking one another, there will be
none left to reach that goal.

Please don't ruin it for everyone by letting your personal feelings
get out of control.  And that goes for everybody.

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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[gimli]

I think you do net get me right. I'm not blaming one person.
I blame the whohle DVB-S2 thing and the developers involved in.
You immedialey shoot, start thinking. It's not the fault of one
person. The mess is the fault of a group of persons. The only
thing i see on this ML is when criticism come up some people here
can't deal with it. That shows me verry little skills in dealing
with criticism and dealing with users and developers. Try to find
a solution and not blaming this or that person. One intresting point
on this ML is, that flames starting realy fast and are mostly
personal and more than rude. And most of the time there is no
technical solution discussion, only flaming and shooting.

cu

Edgar (gimli) Hucek

sinter schrieb:
> Am Freitag 19 Dezember 2008 18:01:40 schrieb gimli:
>> The DVB-S2 stuff smells all like a big bullshit.
>> In the first step a big hurry to get S2API in
>> the mainline kernel and now nothing at all from
>> the DVB-S2 front. This is a completly big mess
>> in my eyes.
>>
>> cu
>>
>> Edgar (gimli) Hucek
>>
>> P.S.: Childish political games which are played on
>> the shoulders of the users. Hurray, well done.
> 
> Yes, Edgar, exactly: This is what the name Manu A. stands for since this guy 
> was recruited as a DVB "maintainer" by Johannes Stezenbach:
> 
> Kiddish political games which are played on the shoulders of the users.
> Also those kiddish games are ideal to hide the discovery of one's own personal 
> mediocrity / incapability in coding issues.
> 
> There are people who ask themselves why Manu A. still owes a repository at 
> linuxtv.org. I guess this runs under "utilitarianism of human beings".
> 
> And also: a huge mass of (inactive) nominal members looks nice for a career at 
> redhat.com, doesn't it?
> 
> 


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Re: [linux-dvb] S2API drivers sync

[Jelle De Loecker]

gimli schreef:
> I think you do net get me right. I'm not blaming one person.
> I blame the whohle DVB-S2 thing and the developers involved in.
> You immedialey shoot, start thinking. It's not the fault of one
> person. The mess is the fault of a group of persons. The only
> thing i see on this ML is when criticism come up some people here
> can't deal with it. That shows me verry little skills in dealing
> with criticism and dealing with users and developers. Try to find
> a solution and not blaming this or that person. One intresting point
> on this ML is, that flames starting realy fast and are mostly
> personal and more than rude. And most of the time there is no
> technical solution discussion, only flaming and shooting.
>
> cu
>
> Edgar (gimli) Hucek
>   

At least this list doesn't shoot you for top-posting like that, I've 
seen some nasty threads about something so trivial ;)

I'm a bit confused: Why are people blaming Manu for this one?
His API got shot down, why (and this is not a rhetorical question) do 
people expect so much from him this time?

And hasn't he already signed of on his drivers to be in the v4l repository?

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