From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-path: Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]:52700 "EHLO mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753840AbZBXOec (ORCPT ); Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:34:32 -0500 Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20090224143427.HPDW4080.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:34:27 +0000 Received: from gateway.localdomain ([86.10.71.240]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20090224143427.EZQZ21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@gateway.localdomain> for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:34:27 +0000 Message-ID: <49A40571.90306@tesco.net> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:34:25 +0000 From: John Pilkington MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-media@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: POLL: for/against dropping support for kernels < 2.6.22 References: <20090223144917.257a8f65@hyperion.delvare> <49A3DDFC.6010608@tesco.net> <20090224141540.4b8a765f@hyperion.delvare> In-Reply-To: <20090224141540.4b8a765f@hyperion.delvare> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-media-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: Hi Jean: Jean Delvare wrote: > Hi John, > > (re-adding linux-media on Cc as I doubt you dropped it on purpose...) Right: I do subconsciously expect 'reply' to go to the list, and don't always remember to check first. No doubt you got two copies. > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:46:04 +0000, John Pilkington wrote: >> Jean Delvare wrote: >> >>> * Enterprise-class distributions (RHEL, SLED) are not the right target >>> for the v4l-dvb repository, so we don't care which kernels these are >>> running. >> I think you should be aware that the mythtv and ATrpms communities >> include a significant number of people who have chosen to use the >> CentOS_5 series in the hope of getting systems that do not need to be >> reinstalled every few months. I hope you won't disappoint them. > > CentOS is a parasite, if it dies I can't care less. CentOS users have > the recurrent habit to expect professional support from the community > without giving anything in return. Even worse: they consider that > running an antediluvian OS is the default and they don't understand why > upstream developers won't help them. > > You said it yourself: they expect to be able to keep the same system > for a long time. This is a service you normally get from Red Hat or > Novell, and you pay for it. This is something the community is > generally not willing to offer for free, because it is not fun. I know there is a range of visions from linux-as-playground to linux-as-tool. Sometimes just learning to use the tool is not a trivial matter, and shows enthusiasm too. I recognize that enthusiasm is the great driver of development, but would still hope that users might expect to be able to slow their personal treadmills without actually falling off. :-) > > If the MythTV community cares that much about the v4l-dvb tree, they are > free to fork it right before support for kernel 2.6.18 is dropped, and > maintain that copy themselves. But their model is broken to start with: > sticking to a several-year-old kernel and OS, and OTOH picking critical > (for their use case) kernel drivers from a development tree which > evolves continuously by definition, makes little sense. Then again, I > would be happy to keep support for them if the cost wasn't too high. > But right now, the cost _is_ too high. > > Your view of community distributions is a bit too negative BTW. You > don't need to go to the extreme CentOS_5 is to not have to reinstall > every few months. openSUSE distributions are maintained for 2 years for > example. >