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* Re: [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 card
       [not found] <737399.42093.qm@web23305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
@ 2009-02-26 23:23 ` Tim Small
  2009-02-27 11:28 ` [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 based DVB-T card Tim Small
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Tim Small @ 2009-02-26 23:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-dvb; +Cc: kraxel

Hello,

I'm interested in getting this card working under Linux as well, it's 
labelled GDI2500PCTV on the back, and has a Conexant CX23881 visible on 
the front, with a Philips "TU1216/1 H P" RF box...  Looks like there may 
be some more ICs under the metal box, but I'd have to desolder it to 
check what they were (which I can do if necessary).

There seems to be TU1216 support in both v4l/saa7134-dvb.c and 
v4l/budget-av.c (code cut-n-paste by the look of it), but I can't see a 
way to select this tuner with the cx88xx module (e.g. CARDLIST.tuner).

So... I'm game for trying to get this working, and have a bit of kernel 
programming experience, but is there anything else I'm likely to need to 
know before I set out on this?

Cheers!

Tim.


Richard Runds wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Have a GDI Black Gold card with subsystem 14c7:0108 and I cannot make it work. Does anyone on the list have a working config for this card and/or know how to make this card work?
>
> I'm getting so far as video1 and vbi1 is created, but I don't have any entries in /dev/dvb/.
>
> cat /dev/video1 > test.mpg produces a video typical of a tv picture without signal (ant-war)... :)
>
>
> config
> ====
>
> /etc/modprobe.conf:
>
> alias char-major-81-1 cx88-dvb
> options cx88xx card=2 i2c_scan=1
>
> lspci -v:
>
> 02:09.0 Multimedia video controller: Conexant CX23880/1/2/3 PCI Video and Audio Decoder (rev 05)
>         Subsystem: Modular Technology Holdings Ltd GDI Black Gold
>         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 23
>         Memory at f5000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
>         Capabilities: [44] Vital Product Data
>         Capabilities: [4c] Power Management version 2
>
> 02:09.2 Multimedia controller: Conexant CX23880/1/2/3 PCI Video and Audio Decoder [MPEG Port] (rev 05)
>         Subsystem: Modular Technology Holdings Ltd Unknown device 0108
>         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 5
>         Memory at f6000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
>         Capabilities: [4c] Power Management version 2
>
> dmesg:
>
> CORE cx88[0]: subsystem: 14c7:0108, board: GDI Black Gold [card=2,insmod option]
> TV tuner -1 at 0x1fe, Radio tuner -1 at 0x1fe
> cx88[0]: Test OK
> cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0x10  [???]
> cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0xa0  [eeprom]
> cx88[0]: GDI: tuner=unknown
> cx88[0]/2: cx2388x 8802 Driver Manager
> ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:02:09.0[A] -> GSI 21 (level, low) -> IRQ 23
> CORE cx88[0]: subsystem: 14c7:0108, board: GDI Black Gold [card=2,insmod option]
> TV tuner -1 at 0x1fe, Radio tuner -1 at 0x1fe
> cx88[0]: Test OK
> cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0x10  [???]
> cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0xa0  [eeprom]
> cx88[0]: GDI: tuner=unknown
> cx88[0]/0: found at 0000:02:09.0, rev: 5, irq: 23, latency: 64, mmio: 0xf5000000
> cx88[0]/0: registered device video1 [v4l2]
> cx88[0]/0: registered device vbi1
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> //riru
>
>
>
>
>       ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
> now.
> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-dvb mailing list
> linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
> http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
>   


_______________________________________________
linux-dvb users mailing list
For V4L/DVB development, please use instead linux-media@vger.kernel.org
linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 based DVB-T card
       [not found] <737399.42093.qm@web23305.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
  2009-02-26 23:23 ` [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 card Tim Small
@ 2009-02-27 11:28 ` Tim Small
  2009-02-27 23:06   ` hermann pitton
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Tim Small @ 2009-02-27 11:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-media

Hello,

I'm interested in getting this card working under Linux as well, it's
labelled GDI2500PCTV on the back, and has a Conexant CX23881 visible on
the front, with a Philips "TU1216/1 H P" RF box...  Looks like there may
be some more ICs under the metal box, but I'd have to desolder it to
check what they were (which I can do if necessary).

According to the preliminary datasheet which I found, the TU1216
contains a TDA 10046 Channel Decoder, and a TDA6651 Mixer/Oscillator.

There seems to be TU1216 support in both v4l/saa7134-dvb.c and
v4l/budget-av.c (code cut-n-paste by the look of it), but I can't see a
way to select this tuner with the cx88xx module (e.g. CARDLIST.tuner),
unless it's called something different, or is compatible with another
Philips tuner.

So... I'm game for trying to get this working, and have a bit of kernel
programming experience, but is there anything else I'm likely to need to
know before I set out on this?

Cheers!

Tim.


Richard Runds wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Have a GDI Black Gold card with subsystem 14c7:0108 and I cannot make it work. Does anyone on the list have a working config for this card and/or know how to make this card work?
>
> I'm getting so far as video1 and vbi1 is created, but I don't have any entries in /dev/dvb/.
>
> cat /dev/video1 > test.mpg produces a video typical of a tv picture without signal (ant-war)... :)
>
>
> config
> ====
>
> /etc/modprobe.conf:
>
> alias char-major-81-1 cx88-dvb
> options cx88xx card=2 i2c_scan=1
>
> lspci -v:
>
> 02:09.0 Multimedia video controller: Conexant CX23880/1/2/3 PCI Video and Audio Decoder (rev 05)
>         Subsystem: Modular Technology Holdings Ltd GDI Black Gold
>         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 23
>         Memory at f5000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
>         Capabilities: [44] Vital Product Data
>         Capabilities: [4c] Power Management version 2
>
> 02:09.2 Multimedia controller: Conexant CX23880/1/2/3 PCI Video and Audio Decoder [MPEG Port] (rev 05)
>         Subsystem: Modular Technology Holdings Ltd Unknown device 0108
>         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 5
>         Memory at f6000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
>         Capabilities: [4c] Power Management version 2
>
> dmesg:
>
> CORE cx88[0]: subsystem: 14c7:0108, board: GDI Black Gold [card=2,insmod option]
> TV tuner -1 at 0x1fe, Radio tuner -1 at 0x1fe
> cx88[0]: Test OK
> cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0x10  [???]
> cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0xa0  [eeprom]
> cx88[0]: GDI: tuner=unknown
> cx88[0]/2: cx2388x 8802 Driver Manager
> ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:02:09.0[A] -> GSI 21 (level, low) -> IRQ 23
> CORE cx88[0]: subsystem: 14c7:0108, board: GDI Black Gold [card=2,insmod option]
> TV tuner -1 at 0x1fe, Radio tuner -1 at 0x1fe
> cx88[0]: Test OK
> cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0x10  [???]
> cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0xa0  [eeprom]
> cx88[0]: GDI: tuner=unknown
> cx88[0]/0: found at 0000:02:09.0, rev: 5, irq: 23, latency: 64, mmio: 0xf5000000
> cx88[0]/0: registered device video1 [v4l2]
> cx88[0]/0: registered device vbi1
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> //riru
>
>
>
>
>       ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
> now.
> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/ 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-dvb mailing list
> linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
> http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb
>   



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 based DVB-T card
  2009-02-27 11:28 ` [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 based DVB-T card Tim Small
@ 2009-02-27 23:06   ` hermann pitton
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: hermann pitton @ 2009-02-27 23:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tim Small; +Cc: linux-media

Hi Tim,

Am Freitag, den 27.02.2009, 11:28 +0000 schrieb Tim Small:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm interested in getting this card working under Linux as well, it's
> labelled GDI2500PCTV on the back, and has a Conexant CX23881 visible on
> the front, with a Philips "TU1216/1 H P" RF box...  Looks like there may
> be some more ICs under the metal box, but I'd have to desolder it to
> check what they were (which I can do if necessary).
> 
> According to the preliminary datasheet which I found, the TU1216
> contains a TDA 10046 Channel Decoder, and a TDA6651 Mixer/Oscillator.
> 
> There seems to be TU1216 support in both v4l/saa7134-dvb.c and
> v4l/budget-av.c (code cut-n-paste by the look of it), but I can't see a
> way to select this tuner with the cx88xx module (e.g. CARDLIST.tuner),
> unless it's called something different, or is compatible with another
> Philips tuner.

since there is no analog TV tuning support you use TUNER_ABSENT in
cx88-cards.c like SAA7134_BOARD_VIDEOMATE_DVBT_200 and
SAA7134_BOARD_PHILIPS_TOUGH do in saa7134-cards.c accordingly.

> So... I'm game for trying to get this working, and have a bit of kernel
> programming experience, but is there anything else I'm likely to need to
> know before I set out on this?

You then need to implement the functions they call in saa7134-dvb.c
accordingly to cx88-dvb.c and find out if the tuner address is 0x60 or
0x61.

	case SAA7134_BOARD_PHILIPS_TOUGH:
		fe0->dvb.frontend = dvb_attach(tda10046_attach,
					       &philips_tu1216_60_config,
					       &dev->i2c_adap);
		if (fe0->dvb.frontend) {
			fe0->dvb.frontend->ops.tuner_ops.init = philips_tu1216_init;
			fe0->dvb.frontend->ops.tuner_ops.set_params = philips_tda6651_pll_set;
		}

For testing, on a first look, you need to introduce the tda10046
including firmware upload #include "tda1004x.h" and at least adapt these
functions to cx88-dvb.

/* ==================================================================
 * tda1004x based DVB-T cards, helper functions
 */

static int philips_tda1004x_request_firmware(struct dvb_frontend *fe,
					   const struct firmware **fw, char *name)
{
	struct saa7134_dev *dev = fe->dvb->priv;
	return request_firmware(fw, name, &dev->pci->dev);
}

/* ------------------------------------------------------------------
 * these tuners are tu1216, td1316(a)
 */

static int philips_tda6651_pll_set(struct dvb_frontend *fe, struct dvb_frontend_parameters *params)
{
	struct saa7134_dev *dev = fe->dvb->priv;
	struct tda1004x_state *state = fe->demodulator_priv;
	u8 addr = state->config->tuner_address;
	u8 tuner_buf[4];
	struct i2c_msg tuner_msg = {.addr = addr,.flags = 0,.buf = tuner_buf,.len =
			sizeof(tuner_buf) };
	int tuner_frequency = 0;
	u8 band, cp, filter;

	/* determine charge pump */
	tuner_frequency = params->frequency + 36166000;
	if (tuner_frequency < 87000000)
		return -EINVAL;
	else if (tuner_frequency < 130000000)
		cp = 3;
	else if (tuner_frequency < 160000000)
		cp = 5;
	else if (tuner_frequency < 200000000)
		cp = 6;
	else if (tuner_frequency < 290000000)
		cp = 3;
	else if (tuner_frequency < 420000000)
		cp = 5;
	else if (tuner_frequency < 480000000)
		cp = 6;
	else if (tuner_frequency < 620000000)
		cp = 3;
	else if (tuner_frequency < 830000000)
		cp = 5;
	else if (tuner_frequency < 895000000)
		cp = 7;
	else
		return -EINVAL;

	/* determine band */
	if (params->frequency < 49000000)
		return -EINVAL;
	else if (params->frequency < 161000000)
		band = 1;
	else if (params->frequency < 444000000)
		band = 2;
	else if (params->frequency < 861000000)
		band = 4;
	else
		return -EINVAL;

	/* setup PLL filter */
	switch (params->u.ofdm.bandwidth) {
	case BANDWIDTH_6_MHZ:
		filter = 0;
		break;

	case BANDWIDTH_7_MHZ:
		filter = 0;
		break;

	case BANDWIDTH_8_MHZ:
		filter = 1;
		break;

	default:
		return -EINVAL;
	}

	/* calculate divisor
	 * ((36166000+((1000000/6)/2)) + Finput)/(1000000/6)
	 */
	tuner_frequency = (((params->frequency / 1000) * 6) + 217496) / 1000;

	/* setup tuner buffer */
	tuner_buf[0] = (tuner_frequency >> 8) & 0x7f;
	tuner_buf[1] = tuner_frequency & 0xff;
	tuner_buf[2] = 0xca;
	tuner_buf[3] = (cp << 5) | (filter << 3) | band;

	if (fe->ops.i2c_gate_ctrl)
		fe->ops.i2c_gate_ctrl(fe, 1);
	if (i2c_transfer(&dev->i2c_adap, &tuner_msg, 1) != 1) {
		wprintk("could not write to tuner at addr: 0x%02x\n",
			addr << 1);
		return -EIO;
	}
	msleep(1);
	return 0;
}

static int philips_tu1216_init(struct dvb_frontend *fe)
{
	struct saa7134_dev *dev = fe->dvb->priv;
	struct tda1004x_state *state = fe->demodulator_priv;
	u8 addr = state->config->tuner_address;
	static u8 tu1216_init[] = { 0x0b, 0xf5, 0x85, 0xab };
	struct i2c_msg tuner_msg = {.addr = addr,.flags = 0,.buf = tu1216_init,.len = sizeof(tu1216_init) };

	/* setup PLL configuration */
	if (fe->ops.i2c_gate_ctrl)
		fe->ops.i2c_gate_ctrl(fe, 1);
	if (i2c_transfer(&dev->i2c_adap, &tuner_msg, 1) != 1)
		return -EIO;
	msleep(1);

	return 0;
}

/* ------------------------------------------------------------------ */

static struct tda1004x_config philips_tu1216_60_config = {
	.demod_address = 0x8,
	.invert        = 1,
	.invert_oclk   = 0,
	.xtal_freq     = TDA10046_XTAL_4M,
	.agc_config    = TDA10046_AGC_DEFAULT,
	.if_freq       = TDA10046_FREQ_3617,
	.tuner_address = 0x60,
	.request_firmware = philips_tda1004x_request_firmware
};

static struct tda1004x_config philips_tu1216_61_config = {

	.demod_address = 0x8,
	.invert        = 1,
	.invert_oclk   = 0,
	.xtal_freq     = TDA10046_XTAL_4M,
	.agc_config    = TDA10046_AGC_DEFAULT,
	.if_freq       = TDA10046_FREQ_3617,
	.tuner_address = 0x61,
	.request_firmware = philips_tda1004x_request_firmware
};

/* ------------------------------------------------------------------ */

What could be factored out to avoid code duplication is another later
question I guess.

Cheers,
Hermann

> Cheers!
> 
> Tim.
> 
> 
> Richard Runds wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Have a GDI Black Gold card with subsystem 14c7:0108 and I cannot make it work. Does anyone on the list have a working config for this card and/or know how to make this card work?
> >
> > I'm getting so far as video1 and vbi1 is created, but I don't have any entries in /dev/dvb/.
> >
> > cat /dev/video1 > test.mpg produces a video typical of a tv picture without signal (ant-war)... :)
> >
> >
> > config
> > ====
> >
> > /etc/modprobe.conf:
> >
> > alias char-major-81-1 cx88-dvb
> > options cx88xx card=2 i2c_scan=1
> >
> > lspci -v:
> >
> > 02:09.0 Multimedia video controller: Conexant CX23880/1/2/3 PCI Video and Audio Decoder (rev 05)
> >         Subsystem: Modular Technology Holdings Ltd GDI Black Gold
> >         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 23
> >         Memory at f5000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
> >         Capabilities: [44] Vital Product Data
> >         Capabilities: [4c] Power Management version 2
> >
> > 02:09.2 Multimedia controller: Conexant CX23880/1/2/3 PCI Video and Audio Decoder [MPEG Port] (rev 05)
> >         Subsystem: Modular Technology Holdings Ltd Unknown device 0108
> >         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 5
> >         Memory at f6000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
> >         Capabilities: [4c] Power Management version 2
> >
> > dmesg:
> >
> > CORE cx88[0]: subsystem: 14c7:0108, board: GDI Black Gold [card=2,insmod option]
> > TV tuner -1 at 0x1fe, Radio tuner -1 at 0x1fe
> > cx88[0]: Test OK
> > cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0x10  [???]
> > cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0xa0  [eeprom]
> > cx88[0]: GDI: tuner=unknown
> > cx88[0]/2: cx2388x 8802 Driver Manager
> > ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:02:09.0[A] -> GSI 21 (level, low) -> IRQ 23
> > CORE cx88[0]: subsystem: 14c7:0108, board: GDI Black Gold [card=2,insmod option]
> > TV tuner -1 at 0x1fe, Radio tuner -1 at 0x1fe
> > cx88[0]: Test OK
> > cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0x10  [???]
> > cx88[0]: i2c scan: found device @ 0xa0  [eeprom]
> > cx88[0]: GDI: tuner=unknown
> > cx88[0]/0: found at 0000:02:09.0, rev: 5, irq: 23, latency: 64, mmio: 0xf5000000
> > cx88[0]/0: registered device video1 [v4l2]
> > cx88[0]/0: registered device vbi1
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > //riru
> >
> >



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 card
@ 2009-05-13  7:13 Rick Lane
  2009-05-13  9:16 ` Richard Runds
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Rick Lane @ 2009-05-13  7:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-dvb


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1417 bytes --]


IN REPLY TO:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm interested in getting this card working under Linux as well, it's 
> labelled GDI2500PCTV on the back, and has a Conexant CX23881 visible on 
> the front, with a Philips "TU1216/1 H P" RF box...  Looks like there may 
> be some more ICs under the metal box, but I'd have to desolder it to 
> check what they were (which I can do if necessary).
> 
> There seems to be TU1216 support in both v4l/saa7134-dvb.c and 
> v4l/budget-av.c (code cut-n-paste by the look of it), but I can't see a 
> way to select this tuner with the cx88xx module (e.g. CARDLIST.tuner).
> 
> So... I'm game for trying to get this working, and have a bit of kernel 
> programming experience, but is there anything else I'm likely to need to 
> know before I set out on this?
> Cheers!
> 
> Tim.
Hi Tim,

I've got two of these cards, and they give a really good picture in windows so I'd love to be able to use them on my Myth box rather than ebay them and get alternatives. I don't have any kernel programming experience but I'm ready to roll my sleeves up and see what happens if you want a guinea pig. My programming experience in the linux world goes as far as tweaking php files and things like that. Currently have the full set of latest v4l-dvb drivers on my backend and plenty of opportunity to fiddle with the config etc. 

Let me know if you wanna bang heads on this...
Rick

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1725 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 228 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
linux-dvb users mailing list
For V4L/DVB development, please use instead linux-media@vger.kernel.org
linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 card
  2009-05-13  7:13 [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 card Rick Lane
@ 2009-05-13  9:16 ` Richard Runds
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Richard Runds @ 2009-05-13  9:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-dvb


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1734 bytes --]

Hi,

Also got one of these cards, and available for testing.


Regards,

Richard




________________________________
From: Rick Lane <richy_lane@hotmail.com>
To: linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May, 2009 8:13:16
Subject: Re: [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 card

 IN REPLY TO:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm interested in getting this card working under Linux as well, it's 
> labelled GDI2500PCTV on the back, and has a Conexant CX23881 visible on 
> the front, with a Philips "TU1216/1 H P" RF box...  Looks like there may 
> be some more ICs under the metal box, but I'd have to desolder it to 
> check what they were (which I can do if necessary).
> 
> There seems to be TU1216 support in both v4l/saa7134-dvb.c and 
> v4l/budget-av.c (code cut-n-paste by the look of it), but I can't see a 
> way to select this tuner with the cx88xx module (e.g. CARDLIST.tuner).
> 
> So... I'm game for trying to get this working, and have a bit of kernel 
> programming experience, but is there anything else I'm likely to need to 
> know before I set out on this?
> Cheers!
> 
> Tim.
Hi Tim,

I've got two of these cards, and they give a really good picture in windows so I'd love to be able to use them on my Myth box rather than ebay them and get alternatives. I don't have any kernel programming experience but I'm ready to roll my sleeves up and see what happens if you want a guinea pig. My programming experience in the linux world goes as far as tweaking php files and things like that. Currently have the full set of latest v4l-dvb drivers on my backend and plenty of opportunity to fiddle with the config etc. 

Let me know if you wanna bang heads on this...
Rick



      

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2580 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 228 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
linux-dvb users mailing list
For V4L/DVB development, please use instead linux-media@vger.kernel.org
linux-dvb@linuxtv.org
http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-dvb

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

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2009-02-26 23:23 ` [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 card Tim Small
2009-02-27 11:28 ` [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 based DVB-T card Tim Small
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2009-05-13  7:13 [linux-dvb] GDI Black Gold [14c7:0108] cx88 card Rick Lane
2009-05-13  9:16 ` Richard Runds

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