request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Jelle de Jong]

Hello everybody,

I have been trying for years now to get support for usb based devices
that makes it possible to watch FTA dvb-t channels in Europa.

I have bought more then 6 devices already and none of them work with the
stock vanilla kernel (or with fedora, debian kernel packages)

I had hopes for the em28xx drivers, and spent a lots of time in the last
years to Markus Rechberger. I made documentation did testing, compiled
packages, did a lot of mailing and irc chats, etcetera.

I always hoped the code and work would be merged back with the official
upstream kernel code so all this work would not be needed anymore and the
devices will all just work with the new kernel releases.

I spent time sending emails and talking to developers to see how we could
help Markus get his code back into the kernel.

But the situation is just sick, and there are real attitude issues on
both sides.

I have gave up my hopes on getting a good healthy development process for
the em28xx project. I am kind of said about this, because I don't give up
easy and currently slowly feels that the em28xx project maybe hurting the
free software community more then its doing good...

I now need new devices that do not need the em28xx code, I gave up hopes
on getting analog and dvb-t to work with one usb hybrid devices, so I am
going for a dvb-t only device.

Can somebody help me provide a list of devices that i can buy in stores
and that are supported in the 2.6.29 stock kernel or have high
possibilities to get full support in the future.

I would also like to point out I need a feature that allows scanning the
signal strength of a dvd-t channel so I can create an fully automated FTA
signal scanning systems that removes weaker supplicated channels.

Best regards, (but kind of disappointed)

Jelle de Jong




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Re: request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Jelle de Jong]

Jelle de Jong wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I have been trying for years now to get support for usb based devices
> that makes it possible to watch FTA dvb-t channels in Europa.
> 
> I have bought more then 6 devices already and none of them work with the
> stock vanilla kernel (or with fedora, debian kernel packages)
> 
> I had hopes for the em28xx drivers, and spent a lots of time in the last
> years to Markus Rechberger. I made documentation did testing, compiled
> packages, did a lot of mailing and irc chats, etcetera.
> 
> I always hoped the code and work would be merged back with the official
> upstream kernel code so all this work would not be needed anymore and the
> devices will all just work with the new kernel releases.
> 
> I spent time sending emails and talking to developers to see how we could
> help Markus get his code back into the kernel.
> 
> But the situation is just sick, and there are real attitude issues on
> both sides.
> 
> I have gave up my hopes on getting a good healthy development process for
> the em28xx project. I am kind of said about this, because I don't give up
> easy and currently slowly feels that the em28xx project maybe hurting the
> free software community more then its doing good...
> 
> I now need new devices that do not need the em28xx code, I gave up hopes
> on getting analog and dvb-t to work with one usb hybrid devices, so I am
> going for a dvb-t only device.
> 
> Can somebody help me provide a list of devices that i can buy in stores
> and that are supported in the 2.6.29 stock kernel or have high
> possibilities to get full support in the future.
> 
> I would also like to point out I need a feature that allows scanning the
> signal strength of a dvd-t channel so I can create an fully automated FTA
> signal scanning systems that removes weaker supplicated channels.
> 
> Best regards, (but kind of disappointed)
> 
> Jelle de Jong
> 

I just took one of my devices out ot the storage that did not work with
previous kernels but now works out of the box with 2.6.29:
- Afatech AF9015 DVB-T USB2.0 stick http://debian.pastebin.com/d3e942c02

a list of more devices is really helpful.

Best regards,

Jelle de Jong

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Re: request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Jelle de Jong]

Jelle de Jong wrote:
> Jelle de Jong wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> I have been trying for years now to get support for usb based devices
>> that makes it possible to watch FTA dvb-t channels in Europa.
>>
>> I have bought more then 6 devices already and none of them work with the
>> stock vanilla kernel (or with fedora, debian kernel packages)
>>
>> I had hopes for the em28xx drivers, and spent a lots of time in the last
>> years to Markus Rechberger. I made documentation did testing, compiled
>> packages, did a lot of mailing and irc chats, etcetera.
>>
>> I always hoped the code and work would be merged back with the official
>> upstream kernel code so all this work would not be needed anymore and the
>> devices will all just work with the new kernel releases.
>>
>> I spent time sending emails and talking to developers to see how we could
>> help Markus get his code back into the kernel.
>>
>> But the situation is just sick, and there are real attitude issues on
>> both sides.
>>
>> I have gave up my hopes on getting a good healthy development process for
>> the em28xx project. I am kind of said about this, because I don't give up
>> easy and currently slowly feels that the em28xx project maybe hurting the
>> free software community more then its doing good...
>>
>> I now need new devices that do not need the em28xx code, I gave up hopes
>> on getting analog and dvb-t to work with one usb hybrid devices, so I am
>> going for a dvb-t only device.
>>
>> Can somebody help me provide a list of devices that i can buy in stores
>> and that are supported in the 2.6.29 stock kernel or have high
>> possibilities to get full support in the future.
>>
>> I would also like to point out I need a feature that allows scanning the
>> signal strength of a dvd-t channel so I can create an fully automated FTA
>> signal scanning systems that removes weaker supplicated channels.
>>
>> Best regards, (but kind of disappointed)
>>
>> Jelle de Jong
>>
> 
> I just took one of my devices out ot the storage that did not work with
> previous kernels but now works out of the box with 2.6.29:
> - Afatech AF9015 DVB-T USB2.0 stick http://debian.pastebin.com/d3e942c02
> 
> a list of more devices is really helpful.
> 

for example: what chipsets do these below devices use and are they
working with the stock 2.6.29 kernel. go/nogo/why)

http://www.informatique.nl/123286/asus-my-cinema-u3100-mini-dvb-t.html
http://www.informatique.nl/445144/conceptronic-tv/dvb-t-adapter-usb2.0.html
http://www.informatique.nl/403047/hauppauge-wintv-hvr-930c.html
http://www.informatique.nl/470187/pinnacle-pctv-72e-dvb-t-stick-ultimate.html
http://www.informatique.nl/470186/pinnacle-pctv-72e-dvb-t-stick.html

Best regards,

Jelle de Jong

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Re: request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Devin Heitmueller]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Jelle de Jong <jelledejong@powercraft.nl> wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I have been trying for years now to get support for usb based devices
> that makes it possible to watch FTA dvb-t channels in Europa.
>
> I have bought more then 6 devices already and none of them work with the
> stock vanilla kernel (or with fedora, debian kernel packages)
>
> I had hopes for the em28xx drivers, and spent a lots of time in the last
> years to Markus Rechberger. I made documentation did testing, compiled
> packages, did a lot of mailing and irc chats, etcetera.
>
> I always hoped the code and work would be merged back with the official
> upstream kernel code so all this work would not be needed anymore and the
> devices will all just work with the new kernel releases.
>
> I spent time sending emails and talking to developers to see how we could
> help Markus get his code back into the kernel.
>
> But the situation is just sick, and there are real attitude issues on
> both sides.
>
> I have gave up my hopes on getting a good healthy development process for
> the em28xx project. I am kind of said about this, because I don't give up
> easy and currently slowly feels that the em28xx project maybe hurting the
> free software community more then its doing good...
>
> I now need new devices that do not need the em28xx code, I gave up hopes
> on getting analog and dvb-t to work with one usb hybrid devices, so I am
> going for a dvb-t only device.
>
> Can somebody help me provide a list of devices that i can buy in stores
> and that are supported in the 2.6.29 stock kernel or have high
> possibilities to get full support in the future.
>
> I would also like to point out I need a feature that allows scanning the
> signal strength of a dvd-t channel so I can create an fully automated FTA
> signal scanning systems that removes weaker supplicated channels.
>
> Best regards, (but kind of disappointed)
>
> Jelle de Jong

Hello Jelle,

I see an email like this every few months, and it continues to sadden
me.  I'm not going to write yet another email casting blame on whose
fault it is.  But let's look at what today's problems are and what
would need to happen going forward.

First off, the problem is not really the em28xx driver itself anymore.
 The in-kernel driver itself is relatively mature and capable of
handling new devices provided a new device profile is created in
em28xx-cards.c.  I've pushed something like 45 patches in in the last
year, and Mauro has pushed many more.  Empia has provided datasheets
for em2860/em2880 and em2874, and the driver is pretty feature
complete.  Support for a variety of new devices has been added in the
last year.

So what is the problem today?  Why do your devices not work?

I believe the answer is a combination of two problems:

1.  A lack of driver support for Micronas demodulators - this is a
sticky issue.  The Micronas demodulator is overly complicated relative
to other demods, and there hasn't been an interest in investing the
time to reverse engineer it (not when there are so many alternatives
available that are much easier to program).  My efforts to get
Micronas to allow me to release the reference driver code failed out
of concern for "trade secrets and intellectual property concerns".
The only reason those devices work in the mcentral.de tree is because
he continues to redistribute their source code without a license.  If
we had a proper license, I would be more than willing to merge this
into the mainline.  With Empia using Micronas more and more in their
newer reference designs, we should expect to see more products that
fall into this category.

2.  A lack of interest on the part of developers with access to DVB-T.
 While support for ATSC based em28xx devices has grown considerably in
the last year, there doesn't seem to be any developers with DVB-T who
are interested in doing the work.  Many of the devices in question
could be made to work with relatively little effort, but a developer
needs to do the work to add the device profile (including the GPIOs)
and iron out any integration bugs.  There haven't been any developers
with both the hardware and access to DVB-T interested in stepping up
to the task.

With this being a volunteer organization, there isn't really any well
to compel developers to work on devices they don't have any interest
in.

In my case personally, I am highly familiar with the em28xx family of
devices, but I don't have access to any of the products in question or
a DVB-T signal to test with (which is why I focus on the em28xx based
ATSC and analog products).

Regards,

Devin

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Re: request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Markus Rechberger]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Devin Heitmueller
<devin.heitmueller@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Jelle de Jong <jelledejong@powercraft.nl> wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> I have been trying for years now to get support for usb based devices
>> that makes it possible to watch FTA dvb-t channels in Europa.
>>
>> I have bought more then 6 devices already and none of them work with the
>> stock vanilla kernel (or with fedora, debian kernel packages)
>>
>> I had hopes for the em28xx drivers, and spent a lots of time in the last
>> years to Markus Rechberger. I made documentation did testing, compiled
>> packages, did a lot of mailing and irc chats, etcetera.
>>
>> I always hoped the code and work would be merged back with the official
>> upstream kernel code so all this work would not be needed anymore and the
>> devices will all just work with the new kernel releases.
>>
>> I spent time sending emails and talking to developers to see how we could
>> help Markus get his code back into the kernel.
>>
>> But the situation is just sick, and there are real attitude issues on
>> both sides.
>>
>> I have gave up my hopes on getting a good healthy development process for
>> the em28xx project. I am kind of said about this, because I don't give up
>> easy and currently slowly feels that the em28xx project maybe hurting the
>> free software community more then its doing good...
>>
>> I now need new devices that do not need the em28xx code, I gave up hopes
>> on getting analog and dvb-t to work with one usb hybrid devices, so I am
>> going for a dvb-t only device.
>>
>> Can somebody help me provide a list of devices that i can buy in stores
>> and that are supported in the 2.6.29 stock kernel or have high
>> possibilities to get full support in the future.
>>
>> I would also like to point out I need a feature that allows scanning the
>> signal strength of a dvd-t channel so I can create an fully automated FTA
>> signal scanning systems that removes weaker supplicated channels.
>>
>> Best regards, (but kind of disappointed)
>>
>> Jelle de Jong
>
> Hello Jelle,
>
> I see an email like this every few months, and it continues to sadden
> me.  I'm not going to write yet another email casting blame on whose
> fault it is.  But let's look at what today's problems are and what
> would need to happen going forward.
>
> First off, the problem is not really the em28xx driver itself anymore.
>  The in-kernel driver itself is relatively mature and capable of
> handling new devices provided a new device profile is created in
> em28xx-cards.c.  I've pushed something like 45 patches in in the last
> year, and Mauro has pushed many more.  Empia has provided datasheets
> for em2860/em2880 and em2874, and the driver is pretty feature
> complete.  Support for a variety of new devices has been added in the
> last year.
>
> So what is the problem today?  Why do your devices not work?
>
> I believe the answer is a combination of two problems:
>
> 1.  A lack of driver support for Micronas demodulators - this is a
> sticky issue.  The Micronas demodulator is overly complicated relative
> to other demods, and there hasn't been an interest in investing the
> time to reverse engineer it (not when there are so many alternatives
> available that are much easier to program).  My efforts to get
> Micronas to allow me to release the reference driver code failed out
> of concern for "trade secrets and intellectual property concerns".
> The only reason those devices work in the mcentral.de tree is because
> he continues to redistribute their source code without a license.  If
> we had a proper license, I would be more than willing to merge this
> into the mainline.  With Empia using Micronas more and more in their
> newer reference designs, we should expect to see more products that
> fall into this category.
>

There are already some business customers who deployed Micronas based solutions
in a legal way.

> 2.  A lack of interest on the part of developers with access to DVB-T.
>  While support for ATSC based em28xx devices has grown considerably in
> the last year, there doesn't seem to be any developers with DVB-T who
> are interested in doing the work.  Many of the devices in question
> could be made to work with relatively little effort, but a developer
> needs to do the work to add the device profile (including the GPIOs)
> and iron out any integration bugs.  There haven't been any developers
> with both the hardware and access to DVB-T interested in stepping up
> to the task.
>

We currently make use of the crossover driver solution which moves the
drivers into userland
and even makes them work with the existing in-kernel as well as with
other unix based operating
systems. There are plenty of advantages starting with we can provide
one single driver for multiple
kernel versions - as long as the USB ID is in the driver the userland
crossoversolution will work with it
and improve its functionality.

Regards,
Markus

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Re: request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Devin Heitmueller]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Markus Rechberger
<mrechberger@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are already some business customers who deployed Micronas based solutions
> in a legal way.
>
>> 2.  A lack of interest on the part of developers with access to DVB-T.
>>  While support for ATSC based em28xx devices has grown considerably in
>> the last year, there doesn't seem to be any developers with DVB-T who
>> are interested in doing the work.  Many of the devices in question
>> could be made to work with relatively little effort, but a developer
>> needs to do the work to add the device profile (including the GPIOs)
>> and iron out any integration bugs.  There haven't been any developers
>> with both the hardware and access to DVB-T interested in stepping up
>> to the task.
>>
>
> We currently make use of the crossover driver solution which moves the
> drivers into userland
> and even makes them work with the existing in-kernel as well as with
> other unix based operating
> systems. There are plenty of advantages starting with we can provide
> one single driver for multiple
> kernel versions - as long as the USB ID is in the driver the userland
> crossoversolution will work with it
> and improve its functionality.
>
> Regards,
> Markus

Just to be clear so that there is no confusion for other readers,
Markus is talking about a closed source product offering.  For people
who don't care about open versus closed source, then this is certainly
an option for them to explore.

Devin

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Re: request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Jelle de Jong]

Devin Heitmueller wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Jelle de Jong <jelledejong@powercraft.nl> wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> I have been trying for years now to get support for usb based devices
>> that makes it possible to watch FTA dvb-t channels in Europa.
>>
>> I have bought more then 6 devices already and none of them work with the
>> stock vanilla kernel (or with fedora, debian kernel packages)
>>
>> I had hopes for the em28xx drivers, and spent a lots of time in the last
>> years to Markus Rechberger. I made documentation did testing, compiled
>> packages, did a lot of mailing and irc chats, etcetera.
>>
>> I always hoped the code and work would be merged back with the official
>> upstream kernel code so all this work would not be needed anymore and the
>> devices will all just work with the new kernel releases.
>>
>> I spent time sending emails and talking to developers to see how we could
>> help Markus get his code back into the kernel.
>>
>> But the situation is just sick, and there are real attitude issues on
>> both sides.
>>
>> I have gave up my hopes on getting a good healthy development process for
>> the em28xx project. I am kind of said about this, because I don't give up
>> easy and currently slowly feels that the em28xx project maybe hurting the
>> free software community more then its doing good...
>>
>> I now need new devices that do not need the em28xx code, I gave up hopes
>> on getting analog and dvb-t to work with one usb hybrid devices, so I am
>> going for a dvb-t only device.
>>
>> Can somebody help me provide a list of devices that i can buy in stores
>> and that are supported in the 2.6.29 stock kernel or have high
>> possibilities to get full support in the future.
>>
>> I would also like to point out I need a feature that allows scanning the
>> signal strength of a dvd-t channel so I can create an fully automated FTA
>> signal scanning systems that removes weaker supplicated channels.
>>
>> Best regards, (but kind of disappointed)
>>
>> Jelle de Jong
> 
> Hello Jelle,
> 
> I see an email like this every few months, and it continues to sadden
> me.  I'm not going to write yet another email casting blame on whose
> fault it is.  But let's look at what today's problems are and what
> would need to happen going forward.
> 
> First off, the problem is not really the em28xx driver itself anymore.
>  The in-kernel driver itself is relatively mature and capable of
> handling new devices provided a new device profile is created in
> em28xx-cards.c.  I've pushed something like 45 patches in in the last
> year, and Mauro has pushed many more.  Empia has provided datasheets
> for em2860/em2880 and em2874, and the driver is pretty feature
> complete.  Support for a variety of new devices has been added in the
> last year.
> 
> So what is the problem today?  Why do your devices not work?
> 
> I believe the answer is a combination of two problems:
> 
> 1.  A lack of driver support for Micronas demodulators - this is a
> sticky issue.  The Micronas demodulator is overly complicated relative
> to other demods, and there hasn't been an interest in investing the
> time to reverse engineer it (not when there are so many alternatives
> available that are much easier to program).  My efforts to get
> Micronas to allow me to release the reference driver code failed out
> of concern for "trade secrets and intellectual property concerns".
> The only reason those devices work in the mcentral.de tree is because
> he continues to redistribute their source code without a license.  If
> we had a proper license, I would be more than willing to merge this
> into the mainline.  With Empia using Micronas more and more in their
> newer reference designs, we should expect to see more products that
> fall into this category.
> 
> 2.  A lack of interest on the part of developers with access to DVB-T.
>  While support for ATSC based em28xx devices has grown considerably in
> the last year, there doesn't seem to be any developers with DVB-T who
> are interested in doing the work.  Many of the devices in question
> could be made to work with relatively little effort, but a developer
> needs to do the work to add the device profile (including the GPIOs)
> and iron out any integration bugs.  There haven't been any developers
> with both the hardware and access to DVB-T interested in stepping up
> to the task.
> 
> With this being a volunteer organization, there isn't really any well
> to compel developers to work on devices they don't have any interest
> in.
> 
> In my case personally, I am highly familiar with the em28xx family of
> devices, but I don't have access to any of the products in question or
> a DVB-T signal to test with (which is why I focus on the em28xx based
> ATSC and analog products).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Devin
> 

Thanks for the quick response, I am aware of the situation and the
specifics of the Micronas case. I talked with Marcus several times about
ways to handle this to make the driver available for the gpl compliant
upstream kernel.

I can also confirm that the analog part of most of my em28xx devices do
work, so currently I am recommending customers two buy two usb devices
one for analog and one for dvb-t.

If you want I can sent you an em28xx device with dvb-t and analog i got
tree of those lying around here.

Best regards,

Jelle de Jong

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Re: request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Devin Heitmueller]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Jelle de Jong
<jelledejong@powercraft.nl> wrote:
> Thanks for the quick response, I am aware of the situation and the
> specifics of the Micronas case. I talked with Marcus several times about
> ways to handle this to make the driver available for the gpl compliant
> upstream kernel.
>
> I can also confirm that the analog part of most of my em28xx devices do
> work, so currently I am recommending customers two buy two usb devices
> one for analog and one for dvb-t.
>
> If you want I can sent you an em28xx device with dvb-t and analog i got
> tree of those lying around here.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jelle de Jong

Hello Jelle,

Once I receive the Terratec device you mentioned, I will see if I can
get it up and running in the mainline kernel (at which point I will
mail it back to you).

Cheers,

Devin

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Re: request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Jelle de Jong]

Devin Heitmueller wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Jelle de Jong
> <jelledejong@powercraft.nl> wrote:
>> Thanks for the quick response, I am aware of the situation and the
>> specifics of the Micronas case. I talked with Marcus several times about
>> ways to handle this to make the driver available for the gpl compliant
>> upstream kernel.
>>
>> I can also confirm that the analog part of most of my em28xx devices do
>> work, so currently I am recommending customers two buy two usb devices
>> one for analog and one for dvb-t.
>>
>> If you want I can sent you an em28xx device with dvb-t and analog i got
>> tree of those lying around here.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jelle de Jong
> 
> Hello Jelle,
> 
> Once I receive the Terratec device you mentioned, I will see if I can
> get it up and running in the mainline kernel (at which point I will
> mail it back to you).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Devin
> 

The devices have been sent to you yesterday, so you can expect them to
arrive soon (depending on US postage speeds).

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: request list of usb dvb-t devices that work with vanilla 2.6.29 kernel

[Devin Heitmueller]

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Jelle de Jong
<jelledejong@powercraft.nl> wrote:
> The devices have been sent to you yesterday, so you can expect them to
> arrive soon (depending on US postage speeds).
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jelle

That's great news.  Thanks,

Devin

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