the focus terms or sequences

the focus terms or sequences

[Kim, HeungJun]

Hi Laurent,

I heard of that there was a chance between you and Sylwester telling about the menu entries focus,
and so after that, probably this menu style of the patch I sent, need to be more upgraded.
So, can you tell me the kind or sequence of the UVC device breifly?

I guess the word *AUTO* at the UVC device means doing focus continuously, not once or one time. 
But, at the sensors I used the *AUTO* focus means doing focus once, on the other hand *CONTINUOUS*
means doing continuously. So, we need to be clear terms about focus.

At the sensor I used, the focus needs 3 kinds of commands:
1) setting mode
  : it makes the lens initial position for each AF(Normal, Continuous, Night mode Focus, etc),
    and set the AF status Idle.
2) execute AF
  : doing the move of the lens
3) read AF status
  : checking the lens status(Focus failed, Focus success, Idle, Busy)
    and do the proper jobs.

I don't know uvc case well, so, If you share about this, it can be help.

Thanks,
Heungjun Kim

Re: the focus terms or sequences

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi HeungJun,

On Monday 14 March 2011 08:02:01 Kim, HeungJun wrote:
> Hi Laurent,
> 
> I heard of that there was a chance between you and Sylwester telling about
> the menu entries focus, and so after that, probably this menu style of the
> patch I sent, need to be more upgraded. So, can you tell me the kind or
> sequence of the UVC device breifly?
> 
> I guess the word *AUTO* at the UVC device means doing focus continuously,
> not once or one time.

That's correct. In the UVC context, auto focus means CAF and manual focus 
means... well, manual focus :-)

> But, at the sensors I used the *AUTO* focus means doing focus once, on the
> other hand *CONTINUOUS* means doing continuously. So, we need to be clear
> terms about focus.
> 
> At the sensor I used, the focus needs 3 kinds of commands:
> 1) setting mode
> 
>   : it makes the lens initial position for each AF(Normal, Continuous,
>   : Night mode Focus, etc),
> 
>     and set the AF status Idle.
> 2) execute AF
> 
>   : doing the move of the lens
> 
> 3) read AF status
> 
>   : checking the lens status(Focus failed, Focus success, Idle, Busy)
> 
>     and do the proper jobs.
> 
> I don't know uvc case well, so, If you share about this, it can be help.

What bothers me with your auto-focus implementation is that the user might 
want to perform auto-focus several times. Let's imagine this use case:

1. The user points the camera (webcam, cellphone camera, digital camera, it 
doesn't matter) at an object.

2. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus (it can be a 
physical button or a button on the camera screen, once again it doesn't 
matter).

3. The application sets the focus control to AUTO.

4. The driver and device perform auto-focus once. The lens is moved so that 
the object is in focus.

5. The user points the camera at another object.

6. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus.

7. The applications sets the focus control to AUTO. As the focus control value 
was already AUTO, nothing is done.

This is clearly broken. That's why we need a V4L2 button control in addition 
to the menu control.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: the focus terms or sequences

[Kim, HeungJun]

Hi Laurent,

First, I hope to be good at the warsaw meeting. :)

2011-03-16 오전 9:14, Laurent Pinchart 쓴 글:
> Hi HeungJun,
> 
> On Monday 14 March 2011 08:02:01 Kim, HeungJun wrote:
>> Hi Laurent,
>>
>> I heard of that there was a chance between you and Sylwester telling about
>> the menu entries focus, and so after that, probably this menu style of the
>> patch I sent, need to be more upgraded. So, can you tell me the kind or
>> sequence of the UVC device breifly?
>>
>> I guess the word *AUTO* at the UVC device means doing focus continuously,
>> not once or one time.
> 
> That's correct. In the UVC context, auto focus means CAF and manual focus 
> means... well, manual focus :-)
> 
>> But, at the sensors I used the *AUTO* focus means doing focus once, on the
>> other hand *CONTINUOUS* means doing continuously. So, we need to be clear
>> terms about focus.
>>
>> At the sensor I used, the focus needs 3 kinds of commands:
>> 1) setting mode
>>
>>   : it makes the lens initial position for each AF(Normal, Continuous,
>>   : Night mode Focus, etc),
>>
>>     and set the AF status Idle.
>> 2) execute AF
>>
>>   : doing the move of the lens
>>
>> 3) read AF status
>>
>>   : checking the lens status(Focus failed, Focus success, Idle, Busy)
>>
>>     and do the proper jobs.
>>
>> I don't know uvc case well, so, If you share about this, it can be help.
> 
> What bothers me with your auto-focus implementation is that the user might 
> want to perform auto-focus several times. Let's imagine this use case:
> 
> 1. The user points the camera (webcam, cellphone camera, digital camera, it 
> doesn't matter) at an object.
> 
> 2. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus (it can be a 
> physical button or a button on the camera screen, once again it doesn't 
> matter).
> 
> 3. The application sets the focus control to AUTO.
> 
> 4. The driver and device perform auto-focus once. The lens is moved so that 
> the object is in focus.
> 
> 5. The user points the camera at another object.
> 
> 6. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus.
> 
> 7. The applications sets the focus control to AUTO. As the focus control value 
> was already AUTO, nothing is done.
> 
> This is clearly broken. That's why we need a V4L2 button control in addition 
> to the menu control.
> 
Yes. Youre'rignt. The menu control dosen't called one more with the same value.
It's now worked I know. But, the reason why I choose menu type for focus,
is because the menu type can let the user-application know how many kinds of
focus this sensor have & support, using querymenu. The only way letting know,
is currently the menu type.

On the other hand, not-working twice or more executions is handled by user-application.
The user-application want twice auto focus, it calls AUTO-Manual-(or any other control
value)-and AUTO once again. It's wierd, but It can satisfy application and drivers.

And, but it might be irrelevant, the user-application(or upper layer platform) can
determine how to draw & arrange the UI objects after it knows the kinds of focus
method at last.

It may be a time to need another type of control. And such control should satisfy these:
1. letting the user-application know how many kinds in the controls(like a querymenu)
2. being available to be called one more.

How about your opinion?

Regards,
Heungjun Kim

Re: the focus terms or sequences

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi,

On Wednesday 16 March 2011 05:50:11 Kim, HeungJun wrote:
> 2011-03-16 오전 9:14, Laurent Pinchart 쓴 글:

[snip]

> > What bothers me with your auto-focus implementation is that the user
> > might want to perform auto-focus several times. Let's imagine this use
> > case:
> > 
> > 1. The user points the camera (webcam, cellphone camera, digital camera,
> > it doesn't matter) at an object.
> > 
> > 2. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus (it can be
> > a physical button or a button on the camera screen, once again it
> > doesn't matter).
> > 
> > 3. The application sets the focus control to AUTO.
> > 
> > 4. The driver and device perform auto-focus once. The lens is moved so
> > that the object is in focus.
> > 
> > 5. The user points the camera at another object.
> > 
> > 6. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus.
> > 
> > 7. The applications sets the focus control to AUTO. As the focus control
> > value was already AUTO, nothing is done.
> > 
> > This is clearly broken. That's why we need a V4L2 button control in
> > addition to the menu control.
> 
> Yes. Youre'rignt. The menu control dosen't called one more with the same
> value. It's now worked I know. But, the reason why I choose menu type for
> focus, is because the menu type can let the user-application know how many
> kinds of focus this sensor have & support, using querymenu. The only way
> letting know, is currently the menu type.
> 
> On the other hand, not-working twice or more executions is handled by
> user-application. The user-application want twice auto focus, it calls
> AUTO-Manual-(or any other control value)-and AUTO once again. It's wierd,
> but It can satisfy application and drivers.
> 
> And, but it might be irrelevant, the user-application(or upper layer
> platform) can determine how to draw & arrange the UI objects after it
> knows the kinds of focus method at last.
> 
> It may be a time to need another type of control. And such control should
> satisfy these: 1. letting the user-application know how many kinds in the
> controls(like a querymenu) 2. being available to be called one more.
> 
> How about your opinion?

I think we need a menu control (to select the focus type) and a button control 
(to run singleshot auto-focus). When the menu control is in auto-focus mode, 
setting the button control will run the auto-focus algorithm once.

Is the macro focus mode a singleshot focus or a continuous auto-focus ?

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: the focus terms or sequences

[Kim HeungJun]

2011. 3. 16., 오후 11:15, Laurent Pinchart 작성:

> Hi,
> 
> On Wednesday 16 March 2011 05:50:11 Kim, HeungJun wrote:
>> 2011-03-16 오전 9:14, Laurent Pinchart 쓴 글:
> 
> [snip]
> 
>>> What bothers me with your auto-focus implementation is that the user
>>> might want to perform auto-focus several times. Let's imagine this use
>>> case:
>>> 
>>> 1. The user points the camera (webcam, cellphone camera, digital camera,
>>> it doesn't matter) at an object.
>>> 
>>> 2. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus (it can be
>>> a physical button or a button on the camera screen, once again it
>>> doesn't matter).
>>> 
>>> 3. The application sets the focus control to AUTO.
>>> 
>>> 4. The driver and device perform auto-focus once. The lens is moved so
>>> that the object is in focus.
>>> 
>>> 5. The user points the camera at another object.
>>> 
>>> 6. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus.
>>> 
>>> 7. The applications sets the focus control to AUTO. As the focus control
>>> value was already AUTO, nothing is done.
>>> 
>>> This is clearly broken. That's why we need a V4L2 button control in
>>> addition to the menu control.
>> 
>> Yes. Youre'rignt. The menu control dosen't called one more with the same
>> value. It's now worked I know. But, the reason why I choose menu type for
>> focus, is because the menu type can let the user-application know how many
>> kinds of focus this sensor have & support, using querymenu. The only way
>> letting know, is currently the menu type.
>> 
>> On the other hand, not-working twice or more executions is handled by
>> user-application. The user-application want twice auto focus, it calls
>> AUTO-Manual-(or any other control value)-and AUTO once again. It's wierd,
>> but It can satisfy application and drivers.
>> 
>> And, but it might be irrelevant, the user-application(or upper layer
>> platform) can determine how to draw & arrange the UI objects after it
>> knows the kinds of focus method at last.
>> 
>> It may be a time to need another type of control. And such control should
>> satisfy these: 1. letting the user-application know how many kinds in the
>> controls(like a querymenu) 2. being available to be called one more.
>> 
>> How about your opinion?
> 
> I think we need a menu control (to select the focus type) and a button control 
> (to run singleshot auto-focus). When the menu control is in auto-focus mode, 
> setting the button control will run the auto-focus algorithm once.
Ah. it's very reasonable. When the focus mode keeps the menu type, and doing
focus is button type, even if another new mode is needed to insert, we can add
easily. I agree with this. 

But, the drivers using focus like uvc, should be changed. And we should probably
consider the cluster between focus mode and execution. is it right? 
 
> 
> Is the macro focus mode a singleshot focus or a continuous auto-focus ?
Of course. yes.

I'll make another patch about this, and could you look around this?  

Thanks,
Heungjun Kim

Re: the focus terms or sequences

[Laurent Pinchart]

On Wednesday 16 March 2011 16:17:30 Kim HeungJun wrote:
> 2011. 3. 16., 오후 11:15, Laurent Pinchart 작성:
> > On Wednesday 16 March 2011 05:50:11 Kim, HeungJun wrote:
> >> 2011-03-16 오전 9:14, Laurent Pinchart 쓴 글:
> > [snip]
> > 
> >>> What bothers me with your auto-focus implementation is that the user
> >>> might want to perform auto-focus several times. Let's imagine this use
> >>> case:
> >>> 
> >>> 1. The user points the camera (webcam, cellphone camera, digital
> >>> camera, it doesn't matter) at an object.
> >>> 
> >>> 2. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus (it can
> >>> be a physical button or a button on the camera screen, once again it
> >>> doesn't matter).
> >>> 
> >>> 3. The application sets the focus control to AUTO.
> >>> 
> >>> 4. The driver and device perform auto-focus once. The lens is moved so
> >>> that the object is in focus.
> >>> 
> >>> 5. The user points the camera at another object.
> >>> 
> >>> 6. The user presses a button to perform singleshot auto-focus.
> >>> 
> >>> 7. The applications sets the focus control to AUTO. As the focus
> >>> control value was already AUTO, nothing is done.
> >>> 
> >>> This is clearly broken. That's why we need a V4L2 button control in
> >>> addition to the menu control.
> >> 
> >> Yes. Youre'rignt. The menu control dosen't called one more with the same
> >> value. It's now worked I know. But, the reason why I choose menu type
> >> for focus, is because the menu type can let the user-application know
> >> how many kinds of focus this sensor have & support, using querymenu.
> >> The only way letting know, is currently the menu type.
> >> 
> >> On the other hand, not-working twice or more executions is handled by
> >> user-application. The user-application want twice auto focus, it calls
> >> AUTO-Manual-(or any other control value)-and AUTO once again. It's
> >> wierd, but It can satisfy application and drivers.
> >> 
> >> And, but it might be irrelevant, the user-application(or upper layer
> >> platform) can determine how to draw & arrange the UI objects after it
> >> knows the kinds of focus method at last.
> >> 
> >> It may be a time to need another type of control. And such control
> >> should satisfy these: 1. letting the user-application know how many
> >> kinds in the controls(like a querymenu) 2. being available to be called
> >> one more.
> >> 
> >> How about your opinion?
> > 
> > I think we need a menu control (to select the focus type) and a button
> > control (to run singleshot auto-focus). When the menu control is in
> > auto-focus mode, setting the button control will run the auto-focus
> > algorithm once.
> 
> Ah. it's very reasonable. When the focus mode keeps the menu type, and
> doing focus is button type, even if another new mode is needed to insert,
> we can add easily. I agree with this.
> 
> But, the drivers using focus like uvc, should be changed. And we should
> probably consider the cluster between focus mode and execution. is it
> right?

UVC only has manual focus and CAF. A menu control will be enough, we don't 
need an additional button control as singleshot AF isn't standardized by UVC.

> > Is the macro focus mode a singleshot focus or a continuous auto-focus ?
> 
> Of course. yes.

Which one ? Singleshot ? Or CAF ?

> I'll make another patch about this, and could you look around this?

Sure.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: the focus terms or sequences

[Kim HeungJun]

Hi, 

2011. 3. 17., 오전 12:27, Laurent Pinchart 작성:

> On Wednesday 16 March 2011 16:17:30 Kim HeungJun wrote:
>> 2011. 3. 16., 오후 11:15, Laurent Pinchart 작성:
>>> On Wednesday 16 March 2011 05:50:11 Kim, HeungJun wrote:
>>>> 2011-03-16 오전 9:14, Laurent Pinchart 쓴 글:
>>> [snip]
[snip]
>>> Is the macro focus mode a singleshot focus or a continuous auto-focus ?
>> 
>> Of course. yes.
> 
> Which one ? Singleshot ? Or CAF ?
I mean Singleshot :)

Regards,
Heungjun Kim