Dear TV card experts - I need you help

Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Mr Andersson]

Hi,

Let me start of by presenting myself. I am a Computer Engineer and a
business man, looking to launch a service where TV channels from
primarily satellites will be made available to the public.

I am trying to garner more info on this topic but it is so difficult
to figure out the requirements are and what the best/most optimal
solution would be.

I'd appreciate if you could take some time to help me figure out what
is out there, and where our focus should be on first.

>From linuxtv i understand that there are a number of cards one could
use for this purpose.
I am interested in good quality cards, that allows us to record and
present as many channels as possible for as little money as possible.

Most cards out there supports maximum 4 channels per cards. Some I've
looked into costs around 200 USD per card and for 2000 channels,
excluding all other hardware, that would cost around 100 000 USD.

Do you know of any suitable cards to look into for this matter?

Also, what software solutions would one need for the tv card up to the
presentation part?

Also, maybe there are already services out there which would allow us
to get access to channels content, without setting up a satellite and
such cards. For instnance, free linux tv services with already
existing content. However, relialibilty is the key here, and channels
cannot come and disappear.

What else would one need to consider in order to provide such a solution?

Also, do you know of other similar existing and competing solutions
out there already? I know of some of these sites, but non of them are
comprehensive or good enough.

If you were to help out and become a valuable contributor, you will
indeed be rewarded with shares and money generated from this project.
I can't go into great detail now what those plans are, but your help
will certainly not go unrewarded, especially if you were to become
more involved, whether as an consultant or as an active participator.

I appreciate your time, and hope that you are able to shed some light
on some of these questions, and possibly others.

Re: Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Steven Toth]

(Please don't reply privately, keep all correspondence to this mailing list.)

> Let me start of by presenting myself. I am a Computer Engineer and a
> business man, looking to launch a service where TV channels from
> primarily satellites will be made available to the public.

You and 2 million other entrepreneurs, past, present and future.

In most western countries, It's illegal to randomly redistribute
television content unless you have specific paid-for negotiated rights
with the content providers and the broadcasters. You should start by
studying the law and contacting the content owners, negotiating
contracts and seeking permission.

Solve the legal contract / redistribution first, then the technology
to make it happen is easily available.

-- 
Steven Toth - Kernel Labs
http://www.kernellabs.com

Re: Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Mr Andersson]

Steven, I appreciate your concern.

But the legal parts are of no concern to us, and we are already aware
of potential legal complexities, especially in western countries, but
fortunately there are many other countries outside of the western
hemisphere. There is also plenty of internet based providers that
already offers this, albeit with a less than ideal quality of service.
So consider that a non issue for now.

I'd like to keep this discussion on the technological aspects.



On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Steven Toth <stoth@kernellabs.com> wrote:
> (Please don't reply privately, keep all correspondence to this mailing list.)
>
>> Let me start of by presenting myself. I am a Computer Engineer and a
>> business man, looking to launch a service where TV channels from
>> primarily satellites will be made available to the public.
>
> You and 2 million other entrepreneurs, past, present and future.
>
> In most western countries, It's illegal to randomly redistribute
> television content unless you have specific paid-for negotiated rights
> with the content providers and the broadcasters. You should start by
> studying the law and contacting the content owners, negotiating
> contracts and seeking permission.
>
> Solve the legal contract / redistribution first, then the technology
> to make it happen is easily available.
>
> --
> Steven Toth - Kernel Labs
> http://www.kernellabs.com

Re: Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Another Sillyname]

It occurs to me that someone who is so cavalier with not paying legal
royalties would be pretty unlikely to pay bills for the advice and
support.

On 3 December 2015 at 16:56, Mr Andersson <mr.andersson.001@gmail.com> wrote:
> Steven, I appreciate your concern.
>
> But the legal parts are of no concern to us, and we are already aware
> of potential legal complexities, especially in western countries, but
> fortunately there are many other countries outside of the western
> hemisphere. There is also plenty of internet based providers that
> already offers this, albeit with a less than ideal quality of service.
> So consider that a non issue for now.
>
> I'd like to keep this discussion on the technological aspects.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Steven Toth <stoth@kernellabs.com> wrote:
>> (Please don't reply privately, keep all correspondence to this mailing list.)
>>
>>> Let me start of by presenting myself. I am a Computer Engineer and a
>>> business man, looking to launch a service where TV channels from
>>> primarily satellites will be made available to the public.
>>
>> You and 2 million other entrepreneurs, past, present and future.
>>
>> In most western countries, It's illegal to randomly redistribute
>> television content unless you have specific paid-for negotiated rights
>> with the content providers and the broadcasters. You should start by
>> studying the law and contacting the content owners, negotiating
>> contracts and seeking permission.
>>
>> Solve the legal contract / redistribution first, then the technology
>> to make it happen is easily available.
>>
>> --
>> Steven Toth - Kernel Labs
>> http://www.kernellabs.com
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Steven Toth]

> It occurs to me that someone who is so cavalier with not paying legal
> royalties would be pretty unlikely to pay bills for the advice and
> support.

+1.

Indeed.

-- 
Steven Toth - Kernel Labs
http://www.kernellabs.com

Re: Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Steven Toth]

> But the legal parts are of no concern to us, and we are already aware
> of potential legal complexities, especially in western countries, but
> fortunately there are many other countries outside of the western
> hemisphere. There is also plenty of internet based providers that
> already offers this, albeit with a less than ideal quality of service.
> So consider that a non issue for now.

You might, I don't. Good luck!

-- 
Steven Toth - Kernel Labs
http://www.kernellabs.com

Re: Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Mr Andersson]

@Steven,

How is that a concern of yours, and why would that have an impact on
you providing some technological information on this topic? That's
hardly illegal.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Steven Toth <stoth@kernellabs.com> wrote:
>> But the legal parts are of no concern to us, and we are already aware
>> of potential legal complexities, especially in western countries, but
>> fortunately there are many other countries outside of the western
>> hemisphere. There is also plenty of internet based providers that
>> already offers this, albeit with a less than ideal quality of service.
>> So consider that a non issue for now.
>
> You might, I don't. Good luck!
>
> --
> Steven Toth - Kernel Labs
> http://www.kernellabs.com

Re: Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Benjamin Larsson]

On 12/03/2015 02:45 PM, Mr Andersson wrote:
> Hi,
>
[,,,]
>
> Most cards out there supports maximum 4 channels per cards. Some I've
> looked into costs around 200 USD per card and for 2000 channels,
> excluding all other hardware, that would cost around 100 000 USD.
>
[...]

The terminology you are looking for is 4 muxes per card, not channel. 
One mux can hold several channels. One satellite I looked at had ca 24
fta muxes with ca 3-4 channels per mux. So to cover this whole satellite 
you would need 6 quad cards. If a quad card costs $200 that gives you 
$50 / mux cost. The cheapest single mux s2 card I could find cost ca 
$60. So $50/mux is probably what you have to pay for this component if 
you buy from a reseller.

MvH
Benjamin Larsson

Re: Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Mr Andersson]

Hi Benjamin,

Thanks for your answer. Jag uppskattar din hjälp ;)

So 50 USD per mux. And I could simultaneously record up to  4 channels
per mux ? Is that satellite dependant?

Could you give me an example of high quality/value cards I should look at first?

Also, what linux software would be best to use together with these
cards? I am looking initially at just streaming the content right of,
although we might need to hook into the stream and manipulate it.
Later, we'd also might be interested in recording the stream as well.

Thanks!

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Benjamin Larsson <benjamin@southpole.se> wrote:
> On 12/03/2015 02:45 PM, Mr Andersson wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
> [,,,]
>>
>>
>> Most cards out there supports maximum 4 channels per cards. Some I've
>> looked into costs around 200 USD per card and for 2000 channels,
>> excluding all other hardware, that would cost around 100 000 USD.
>>
> [...]
>
> The terminology you are looking for is 4 muxes per card, not channel. One
> mux can hold several channels. One satellite I looked at had ca 24
> fta muxes with ca 3-4 channels per mux. So to cover this whole satellite you
> would need 6 quad cards. If a quad card costs $200 that gives you $50 / mux
> cost. The cheapest single mux s2 card I could find cost ca $60. So $50/mux
> is probably what you have to pay for this component if you buy from a
> reseller.
>
> MvH
> Benjamin Larsson

Re: Dear TV card experts - I need you help

[Benjamin Larsson]

On 12/04/2015 05:35 PM, Mr Andersson wrote:
> Hi Benjamin,
>
> Thanks for your answer. Jag uppskattar din hjälp ;)
>
> So 50 USD per mux. And I could simultaneously record up to  4 channels
> per mux ? Is that satellite dependant?
>
> Could you give me an example of high quality/value cards I should look at first?
>
> Also, what linux software would be best to use together with these
> cards? I am looking initially at just streaming the content right of,
> although we might need to hook into the stream and manipulate it.
> Later, we'd also might be interested in recording the stream as well.
>
> Thanks!

Hi, the question you ask needs an answer in the form of basic digital tv 
tutorial. I suggest you search the web for that info.

Regarding software I suggest you look at the tvheadend project. It has a 
software model that is easy to understand.

Regarding hardware I would go for quad pcie in a form factor that would 
fit in rack-mounted servers. You need high density and that is the only 
way to get that. So I would say skip trying to find something cheap, get 
something that is reliable and maintainable.

MvH
Benjamin Larsson