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[2001:1c00:c32:7800:5bfa:a036:83f0:f9ec]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-6aa597558casm478677a12.22.2026.09.18.01.08.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 18 Sep 2026 01:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 10:08:19 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-media@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird From: johannes.goede@oss.qualcomm.com Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Camera & ISP at Linux Plumbers Conference To: Bryan O'Donoghue , Laurent Pinchart , libcamera-devel@lists.libcamera.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org References: <20260914233810.GA2796257@killaraus.ideasonboard.com> <00cc46b2-0729-46d3-8e3b-ea717ec1675e@kernel.org> Content-Language: en-US, nl In-Reply-To: <00cc46b2-0729-46d3-8e3b-ea717ec1675e@kernel.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details-Enc: AW1haW4tMjYwOTE4MDExMCBTYWx0ZWRfX6p/axeyau1Up oIP8/Rfqlv1hm0tR+Y3RkoMfAzlpbWii04dBhX6PIxCrJym+qUgkM2bbPC1NvfEpCAiNupGAO9K jS0aVUGnV2AUYtjeZ+FmifHNX30FehpAJWpZgIhvWQmr4HJmzhT638xXkRdR+HWp5qZL03lmZke WTiNYboGwvF0VjttrasDpsFeC02zWjW+U7Sl+gla8tY+E1LmLijbAoHftt7Ht66QB8n7TneAXN7 +INzGo229v2hc5hcU/BP+BGtNSxEDaGm8EebnXo4T1JIjhGDwOSRU168BByy3/vWqiDS/pZBV9d 9zQ+sjnuFvfnOprwI9cP4/YP6+oD+P7hwh0KtpzrUqrNWnPgnIOaxdf0PRhmoFmRWZjA+IrXpoj ykMLxbxA8J03Q92LHDIpnW51YvRtMZLLdjCTBe2TFd4bFSaDR1woXocBDQOcKpX84bxbGyQEEvz deYy2Oy9hcl3S9ugVBg== X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: uyixqQFkHS3CpoIn4zqkc3T6IHRYai2Q X-Proofpoint-Spam-Info: AW1haW4tMjYwOTE4MDExMCBTYWx0ZWRfX+0rsBA2SLydd ZgTlvoRN1eQcpiHJzx0b8EeKS9c8jv7fXTUin3cfY2j10+/+Vtul/eUWzjXSAnipK5H661yirjl DozAIEt9/8srN6R+5QLfiLk5Pk1tRI4= X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=IP2XmQvG c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=6aacf176 cx=c_pps a=50t2pK5VMbmlHzFWWp8p/g==:117 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=VdqzKS8jKosA:10 a=s4-Qcg_JpJYA:10 a=VkNPw1HP01LnGYTKEx00:22 a=u7WPNUs3qKkmUXheDGA7:22 a=DJpcGTmdVt4CTyJn9g5Z:22 a=Q7h4a8Ryz-xEVX_vn_AA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=IoWCM6iH3mJn3m4BftBB:22 X-Proofpoint-GUID: uyixqQFkHS3CpoIn4zqkc3T6IHRYai2Q X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1176,Hydra:6.1.134,FMLib:17.12.100.49 definitions=2026-09-18_02,2026-09-16_02,2025-10-01_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 clxscore=1015 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=typeunknown authscore=0 authtc= authcc= route=outbound adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.22.0-2609040000 definitions=main-2609180110 Hi, On 17-Sep-26 15:47, Bryan O'Donoghue wrote: > On 15/09/2026 00:38, Laurent Pinchart wrote: >> We can consider scheduling a third topic. Proposals are welcome. > > From my LPC submission: > > "Should offline ISPs be implemented in drm/accel" > > Where does an offline Camera ISP belong in video4linux or in DRM and why ? > > There are two main types of ISP - inline and offline. An inline ISP takes sensor input directly and produces some kind of processed image on the output. This is a natural fit for v4l2. > > An offline ISP takes a memory buffer given to it and processes that buffer against supplied parameters. This model can be implemented as a video4linux m2m device but it could also be implemented as a DRM device and included in the DAG. > > Taking Qualcomm SoCs as an example the Camera hardware provides two types of ISP. An inline processing engine IFE and an offline processing engine based on firmware ICP/HFI. Note that one some Qualcomm SoCs the inline-engine can be switched to offline mode and then run as a M2M ISP. Also the offline ISPs and inline ISPs often have similar processing-blocks with similar or identical parameters. I do not think that splitting this over 2 subsystems is helpful and will lead to a lot of duplication of efforts related to ISPs. > A use-case emerges to implement the inline ISP in v4l2 and the offline in drm/accel. > > Some tension with this design would exist as user-space would have to be involved to update ISP parameters and process statistics. Another tension is including a firmware based system in dma-fencing including watchdogging and resetting if required. > > There are clear benefits to having a loop of NPU/DSP to Offline ISP to Display that drm/accel seems to offer some interesting solutions to. This sounds to me like we need a way to better integrate drm and v4l2 subsystems. Other areas like hw-video-decoders might benefit from having better integration there too. Regards, Hans