From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by neteng.engr.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA08584 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:18:44 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo-owner@localhost) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id VAA83315 for linux-list; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:17:54 -0800 (PST) mail_from (owner-linux@relay.engr.sgi.com) Received: from sgi.com (sgi.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.37]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA84476; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:17:52 -0800 (PST) mail_from (davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com) Received: from dm.cobaltmicro.com (dm.cobaltmicro.com [209.133.34.35]) by sgi.com (980327.SGI.8.8.8-aspam/980304.SGI-aspam: SGI does not authorize the use of its proprietary systems or networks for unsolicited or bulk email from the Internet.) via ESMTP id VAA01700; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:17:51 -0800 (PST) mail_from (davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com) Received: (from davem@localhost) by dm.cobaltmicro.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA17644; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:19:05 -0800 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:19:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199901190519.VAA17644@dm.cobaltmicro.com> From: "David S. Miller" To: eak@detroit.sgi.com CC: ralf@uni-koblenz.de, ariel@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com, adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca, richard@infopact.nl In-reply-to: <36A40CBE.F55CA9F1@detroit.sgi.com> (message from Eric Kimminau on Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:40:30 -0500) Subject: Re: linus.linux.sgi.com References: <369F8C88.39CC6B03@infopact.nl> <199901151909.LAA23245@oz.engr.sgi.com> <19990115225918.25643@uni-koblenz.de> <199901160321.TAA11493@dm.cobaltmicro.com> <36A40CBE.F55CA9F1@detroit.sgi.com> Sender: owner-linux@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:40:30 -0500 From: Eric Kimminau As for "screwing their customers", ask Sun when they are going to support NT on any of their systems. Never, whats so wrong with that? To quote their VP of desktops "One more Linux user is one less NT user." I think this makes their stance on NT pretty obvious. Also look at their position in the M$ trial. They have things like WABI, which runs on Sparc right now, so if you just need the M$ applications, you can run them. At least SGI is making it possible to start thinking about doing UNIX environment kinds of tasks in the NT world rather than snubbing their nose at the people who have made the business decision to migrate to that environment. If everyone jumps off a bridge, should we follow right after them? I think the problem is the direction of the thinking here. Why do we need to bring Unix to NT, if all users want is both environments and the applications, then bring NT to Unix since we know Unix is better (sic) and has fewer fallacies than NT does. As for "no UNIX story" on the 320 or 540 hardware, all I can say is that there have been a lot of Linux rumors. Nothing substantiated. And here is the point I was trying to make, rumors aren't going to get anywhere. SGI is taking too long to commit if they do have something in the pipeline, everything is up in the air, and the best this does is either: 1) Give the rumors (right or wrong) more weight than an official statement, until such a statement is made. 2) Put question marks above the heads of everyone else. HP uses Intel CPU's. Compaq now owns DEC. Who says SGI has to own the company that makes the CPU's we put in our systems? I never said that. All I said was that it would have been wiser to give users a one SGI platform family migration scheme, ie. have a family of MIPS machine that ran what the next generation machine would (even if only at such a level to assure successful ports)... It's like the difference between: 1) A bomb is about to drop, assume the position. and 2) A bomb is dropping in a month, here are the tools and resources to build a shelter for yourselves so you are prepared. For being an SGI supporter, this sure sounds like Sun FUD, IMHO. I am a supporter, but this does not mean I need to close my eyes when I believe very bad decisions are being made. That would make me a sheep. I think SGI's stalling is a mistake, so I'm going to talk about it. When I was an intern at SGI, I told people things like this. I'm very outspoken, and I'll tell people when they make mistakes, and I'll also make suggestions about future decisions when I am listened to about such matters. The "everyone else's shit stinks except mine" mentality has been the source of failure behind a few engineering teams and companies out there. I think SGI is doing some cool stuff, the hardware looks impressive. I also think Sun is doing a lot of nice stuff too. I choose to learn from what both of them are doing, instead of being a blind pundit for one or the other. Later, David S. Miller davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com