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From: "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com>
To: "Maciej W. Rozycki" <macro@orcam.me.uk>
Cc: Thomas Bogendoerfer <tsbogend@alpha.franken.de>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Dominik Brodowski <linux@dominikbrodowski.net>,
	Russell King <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@arm.com>,
	Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	Paul Walmsley <paul.walmsley@sifive.com>,
	Palmer Dabbelt <palmer@dabbelt.com>,
	Albert Ou <aou@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
	"David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	Anton Ivanov <anton.ivanov@cambridgegreys.com>,
	Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	"H . Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Chris Zankel <chris@zankel.net>,
	Max Filippov <jcmvbkbc@gmail.com>,
	John Stultz <john.stultz@linaro.org>,
	Stephen Boyd <sboyd@kernel.org>,
	Dinh Nguyen <dinguyen@kernel.org>,
	linux-arm-kernel <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	linux-m68k <linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org>,
	"open list:BROADCOM NVRAM DRIVER" <linux-mips@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-riscv <linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org>,
	sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-um@lists.infradead.org,
	X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 04/11] mips: use fallback for random_get_entropy() instead of zero
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:27:22 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YlfoeGRM6w2O+eXA@zx2c4.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.21.2204140014580.9383@angie.orcam.me.uk>

Hi Maciej,

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 02:16:18AM +0100, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote:
>  Yes, for the relevant CPUs the range is 63-8 << 8 for R3k machines and 
> 47-0 (the lower bound can be higher if wired entries are used, which I 
> think we occasionally do) for R4k machines with a buggy CP0 counter.  So 
> there are either 56 or up to 48 distinct CP0 Random register values.

Ahh interesting, so it varies a bit, but it remains rather small.

>  It depends on the exact system.  Some have a 32-bit high-resolution 
> counter in the chipset (arch/mips/kernel/csrc-ioasic.c) giving like 25MHz 
> resolution, some have nothing but jiffies.

Alright, so there _are_ machines with no c0 cycles but with a good
clock. Yet, 25MHz is still less than the cpu cycle, so this c0 random
ORing trick remains useful perhaps.

>  It seems like a reasonable idea to me, but the details would have to be 
> sorted out, because where a chipset high-resolution counter is available 
> we want to factor it in, and otherwise we need to extract the right bits 
> from the CP0 Random register, either 13:8 for the R3k or 5:0 for the R4k.

One thing we could do here that would seemingly cover all the cases
without losing _that_ much would be:

    return (random_get_entropy_fallback() << 13) | ((1<<13) - read_c0_random());

Or in case the 13 turns out to be wrong on some hardware, we could
mitigate the effect with:

    return (random_get_entropy_fallback() << 13) ^ ((1<<13) - read_c0_random());

As mentioned in the 1/xx patch of this series,
random_get_entropy_fallback() should call the highest resolution thing.
We then shave off the least-changing bits and stuff in the
faster-changing bits from read_c0_random(). Then, in order to keep it
counting up instead of down, we do the subtraction there.

What do you think of this plan?

Jason

  reply	other threads:[~2022-04-14  9:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-04-13 11:54 [PATCH v4 00/11] archs/random: fallback to best raw ktime when no cycle counter Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 01/11] timekeeping: add raw clock fallback for random_get_entropy() Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 14:32   ` Rob Herring
2022-04-13 22:38     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-14 20:41       ` Rob Herring
2022-04-14 21:49         ` H. Peter Anvin
2022-04-14 10:12   ` Russell King (Oracle)
2022-04-14 11:56     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 02/11] m68k: use fallback for random_get_entropy() instead of zero Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 03/11] riscv: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 14:40   ` Rob Herring
2022-04-13 22:40     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 04/11] mips: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 12:25   ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2022-04-13 12:46     ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-13 22:35       ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-14  1:16         ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-14  9:27           ` Jason A. Donenfeld [this message]
2022-04-15 12:26             ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-16 11:09               ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-16 14:44                 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-16 22:54                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-18  7:10               ` Thomas Bogendoerfer
2022-04-23 23:33                 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-24  8:15                   ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-24 10:51                     ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 05/11] arm: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 06/11] nios2: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-05-23 13:58   ` Dinh Nguyen
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 07/11] x86: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 08/11] um: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 09/11] sparc: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 10/11] xtensa: " Jason A. Donenfeld
2022-04-13 11:54 ` [PATCH v4 11/11] random: insist on random_get_entropy() existing in order to simplify Jason A. Donenfeld

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