(Short?) merge window reminder

(Short?) merge window reminder

[Linus Torvalds]

So I've been busily merging stuff, and just wanted to send out a quick
reminder that I warned people in the 39 announcement that this might
be a slightly shorter merge window than usual, so that I can avoid
having to make the -rc1 release from Japan using my slow laptop (doing
"allyesconfig" builds on that thing really isn't in the cards, and I
like to do those to verify things - even if we've already had a few
cases where arch include differences made it less than effective in
finding problems).

And judging by the merge window so far, that early close (probably
Sunday - I'll be on airplanes next Monday) looks rather likely. I
already seem to have a fairly sizable portion of linux-next in my
tree, and there haven't been any huge upsets.

So anybody who was planning a last-minute "please pull" - this is a
heads-up. Don't do it, you might miss the window entirely.

Did I miss any major development mailing lists with stuff pending?

                       Linus

PS. The voices in my head also tell me that the numbers are getting
too big. I may just call the thing 2.8.0. And I almost guarantee that
this PS is going to result in more discussion than the rest, but when
the voices tell me to do things, I listen.

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Ingo Molnar]

* Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:

> PS. The voices in my head also tell me that the numbers are getting too big. 
> I may just call the thing 2.8.0. And I almost guarantee that this PS is going 
> to result in more discussion than the rest, but when the voices tell me to do 
> things, I listen.

I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before 
cutting 3.0.0! :-)

	Ingo

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Linus Torvalds]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>
> I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
> cutting 3.0.0! :-)

So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
the fourth one.

But no, it wouldn't be for 42. Despite THHGTTG, I think "40" is a
fairly nice round number.

There's also the timing issue - since we no longer do version numbers
based on features, but based on time, just saying "we're about to
start the third decade" works as well as any other excuse.

But we'll see.

                           Linus

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Alexey Zaytsev]

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 00:33, Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>>
>> I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
>> cutting 3.0.0! :-)
>
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.
>
> But no, it wouldn't be for 42. Despite THHGTTG, I think "40" is a
> fairly nice round number.
>
> There's also the timing issue - since we no longer do version numbers
> based on features, but based on time, just saying "we're about to
> start the third decade" works as well as any other excuse.
>
> But we'll see.

Maybe, 2011.x, or 11.x, x increasing for every merge window started this year?
This would better reflect the steady nature of the releases, but would
certainly break a lot of scripts. ;)

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Boaz Harrosh]

On 05/23/2011 11:52 PM, Alexey Zaytsev wrote:
> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 00:33, Linus Torvalds
> <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
>>> cutting 3.0.0! :-)
>>
>> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
>> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
>> the fourth one.
>>
>> But no, it wouldn't be for 42. Despite THHGTTG, I think "40" is a
>> fairly nice round number.
>>
>> There's also the timing issue - since we no longer do version numbers
>> based on features, but based on time, just saying "we're about to
>> start the third decade" works as well as any other excuse.
>>
>> But we'll see.
> 
> Maybe, 2011.x, or 11.x, x increasing for every merge window started this year?
> This would better reflect the steady nature of the releases, but would
> certainly break a lot of scripts. ;)

My $0.017 on this. Clearly current process is time based. People have said.

* Keep Three digit numbers to retain script compatibility
* Make it clear from the version when it was released.
* Linus said 3 as for 3rd decade
* Nice single increment number progression
* Please make it look like a nice version number sys-admins will feel
  at home with

So if you combine all the above:

D. Y. N
D - Is the decade since birth (1991 not 1990)
Y - is the year in the decade so you have 3.1.x, 3.2.x, .. 3.10.x, 4.1.X and so on
    Nice incremental number.
N - The Linus release of this Year. So this 3rd one goes up to 4 most probably.

Linus always likes, and feels very poetic about the Christmas version release.
He hates it when once it slipped into the next year. So now he gets to increment
the second digit as a bonus.

The 2nd digit gets to start on a *one*, never zero and goes up to *10*, to symbolize
the 1991 birth. And we never have .zero quality, right?

The first Digit gets incremented on decade from 1991 so on 2011 and not 2010

So here you have it, who said we need to compromise?

Free life
Boaz
 

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Tony Luck]

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Boaz Harrosh <bharrosh@panasas.com> wrote:
> So if you combine all the above:
>
> D. Y. N
> D - Is the decade since birth (1991 not 1990)
> Y - is the year in the decade so you have 3.1.x, 3.2.x, .. 3.10.x, 4.1.X and so on
>    Nice incremental number.
> N - The Linus release of this Year. So this 3rd one goes up to 4 most probably.
>
> Linus always likes, and feels very poetic about the Christmas version release.
> He hates it when once it slipped into the next year. So now he gets to increment
> the second digit as a bonus.
>
> The 2nd digit gets to start on a *one*, never zero and goes up to *10*, to symbolize
> the 1991 birth. And we never have .zero quality, right?
>
> The first Digit gets incremented on decade from 1991 so on 2011 and not 2010

This is clearly the best suggestion so far - small numbers, somewhat
date related (but without stuffing a "2011." on the front).  No ".0"
releases, ever.

But best of all it defines now when we will switch to 4.x.y and 5.x.y
so we don't have to keep having this discussion whenever someone thinks
that the numbers are getting "too big" (well perhaps when we get to the
tenth decade or so :-)

So the only thing left to argue is whether the upcoming release should
be numbered "3.1.1" as the first release in the first year of the 3rd
decade ...  or whether we should count 2.6.37 .. 2.6.39 as the first
three releases this year and thus we ought to start with "3.1.4" (so we
start with "pi"!).

Linus: If you go with this, you should let Boaz set the new "NAME"
as a prize for such an inspired solution.

-Tony

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Boaz Harrosh]

On 05/26/2011 01:21 AM, Tony Luck wrote:
> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 7:12 AM, Boaz Harrosh <bharrosh@panasas.com> wrote:
>> So if you combine all the above:
>>
>> D. Y. N
>> D - Is the decade since birth (1991 not 1990)
>> Y - is the year in the decade so you have 3.1.x, 3.2.x, .. 3.10.x, 4.1.X and so on
>>    Nice incremental number.
>> N - The Linus release of this Year. So this 3rd one goes up to 4 most probably.
>>
>> Linus always likes, and feels very poetic about the Christmas version release.
>> He hates it when once it slipped into the next year. So now he gets to increment
>> the second digit as a bonus.
>>
>> The 2nd digit gets to start on a *one*, never zero and goes up to *10*, to symbolize
>> the 1991 birth. And we never have .zero quality, right?
>>
>> The first Digit gets incremented on decade from 1991 so on 2011 and not 2010
> 
> This is clearly the best suggestion so far - small numbers, somewhat
> date related (but without stuffing a "2011." on the front).  No ".0"
> releases, ever.
> 
> But best of all it defines now when we will switch to 4.x.y and 5.x.y
> so we don't have to keep having this discussion whenever someone thinks
> that the numbers are getting "too big" (well perhaps when we get to the
> tenth decade or so :-)
> 
> So the only thing left to argue is whether the upcoming release should
> be numbered "3.1.1" as the first release in the first year of the 3rd
> decade ...  or whether we should count 2.6.37 .. 2.6.39 as the first
> three releases this year and thus we ought to start with "3.1.4" (so we
> start with "pi"!).
> 

Yes, Yes I like this a lot. I love pi, thanks.

Boaz
> Linus: If you go with this, you should let Boaz set the new "NAME"
> as a prize for such an inspired solution.
> 
> -Tony

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Yuhong Bao]

Linus Torvalds <torvalds <at> linux-foundation.org> writes:
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.
> 
> But no, it wouldn't be for 42. Despite THHGTTG, I think "40" is a
> fairly nice round number.
So why not start Linux 2.7 or Linux 2.9?

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Oliver Pinter]

On 5/23/11, Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>>
>> I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
>> cutting 3.0.0! :-)

I think, the best time for this, after reorganize the ARM arch folder / tree.

>
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.
>
> But no, it wouldn't be for 42. Despite THHGTTG, I think "40" is a
> fairly nice round number.
>
> There's also the timing issue - since we no longer do version numbers
> based on features, but based on time, just saying "we're about to
> start the third decade" works as well as any other excuse.
>
> But we'll see.
>
>                            Linus
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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Greg KH]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 01:33:48PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> >
> > I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
> > cutting 3.0.0! :-)
> 
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.

I like that, it would make things much easier for me to keep track of
stuff.

> But no, it wouldn't be for 42. Despite THHGTTG, I think "40" is a
> fairly nice round number.
> 
> There's also the timing issue - since we no longer do version numbers
> based on features, but based on time, just saying "we're about to
> start the third decade" works as well as any other excuse.

That sounds reasonable as well.

greg k-h

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Matthew Wilcox]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 03:21:21PM -0700, Greg KH wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 01:33:48PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> > > I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
> > > cutting 3.0.0! :-)
> > 
> > So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> > not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> > the fourth one.
> 
> I like that, it would make things much easier for me to keep track of
> stuff.

As long as 3.14 turns into a long-term support kernel and gets up to 159 ...

In all serious, I'm very supportive of this move.  I'm heartily sick
of people claiming "we have version 2.6 support" when they really mean
they haven't updated since version 2.6.9.  Yeah, congratulations, you're
seven years out of date.

-- 
Matthew Wilcox				Intel Open Source Technology Centre
"Bill, look, we understand that you're interested in selling us this
operating system, but compare it to ours.  We can't possibly take such
a retrograde step."

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[jonsmirl]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>>
>> I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
>> cutting 3.0.0! :-)
>
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.

Could we set a goal of having 3.0 be the first release with a totally
cleaned up ARM arch? That would give everyone a good target to work
towards.

-- 
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@gmail.com

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Ted Ts'o]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 01:33:48PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> >
> > I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
> > cutting 3.0.0! :-)
> 
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.

If we change from 2.6.X to 3.X, then if we don't change anything else,
then successive stable release will cause the LINUX_VERSION_CODE to be
incremented.  This isn't necessary bad, but it would be a different
from what we have now.

							- Ted

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Randy Dunlap]

On Mon, 23 May 2011 19:17:21 -0400 Ted Ts'o wrote:

> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 01:33:48PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> > >
> > > I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
> > > cutting 3.0.0! :-)
> > 
> > So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> > not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> > the fourth one.
> 
> If we change from 2.6.X to 3.X, then if we don't change anything else,
> then successive stable release will cause the LINUX_VERSION_CODE to be
> incremented.  This isn't necessary bad, but it would be a different
> from what we have now.


It's just another little thing to break several scripts...


---
~Randy
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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[H. Peter Anvin]

On 05/23/2011 04:17 PM, Ted Ts'o wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 01:33:48PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
>>> cutting 3.0.0! :-)
>>
>> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
>> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
>> the fourth one.
> 
> If we change from 2.6.X to 3.X, then if we don't change anything else,
> then successive stable release will cause the LINUX_VERSION_CODE to be
> incremented.  This isn't necessary bad, but it would be a different
> from what we have now.
> 

That sounds like a good thing.

	-hpa

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Linus Torvalds]

Another advantage of switching numbering models (ie 3.0 instead of
2.8.x) would be that it would also make the "odd numbers are also
numbers" transition much more natural.

Because of our historical even/odd model, I wouldn't do a 2.7.x -
there's just too much history of 2.1, 2.3, 2.5 being development
trees. But if I do 3.0, then I'd be chucking that whole thing out the
window, and the next release would be 3.1, 3.2, etc..

And then in another few years (probably before getting close to 3.40,
so I'm not going to make a big deal of 3 = "third decade"), I'd just
do 4.0 etc.

Because all our releases are supposed to be stable releases these
days, and if we get rid of one level of numbering, I feel perfectly
fine with getting rid of the even/odd history too.

                      Linus

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Ingo Molnar]

* Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:

> Another advantage of switching numbering models (ie 3.0 instead of
> 2.8.x) would be that it would also make the "odd numbers are also
> numbers" transition much more natural.

Yeah, it sounds really good to get rid of the (meanwhile) meaningless
"2.6." prefix from our version code and iterate it in a more
meaningful way.

I suspect the stable team and distros will enjoy the more meaningful
third digit as well: it will raise the perceived importance of
stabilization and packaging work.

Btw., we should probably remove the fourth (patch) level, otherwise
distros might feel tempted to fill it in with their own patch-stack
version number, which would result in confusing "3.3.1.5" meaning
different things on different distros - while 3.3.1-5.rpm style of
distro kernel package naming denotes the distro patch level more
clearly.

I don't think the odd/even history will linger too long: in practice
we'll iterate through 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 and 3.4 rather quickly, in the first
year, so any residual notion of stable/unstable will be gone within a
few iterations.

> Because of our historical even/odd model, I wouldn't do a 2.7.x -
> there's just too much history of 2.1, 2.3, 2.5 being development
> trees. But if I do 3.0, then I'd be chucking that whole thing out the
> window, and the next release would be 3.1, 3.2, etc..
> 
> And then in another few years (probably before getting close to 3.40,
> so I'm not going to make a big deal of 3 = "third decade"), I'd just
> do 4.0 etc.

Perhaps we could do 4.0 once the last bit of -rt hits upstream? /me ducks

> Because all our releases are supposed to be stable releases these
> days, and if we get rid of one level of numbering, I feel perfectly
> fine with getting rid of the even/odd history too.

They are very stable releases as far as i'm concerned - i can pretty
confidently run and use -rc2 and better kernels on my boxes these days
and could do so for the past few years.

Thanks,

	Ingo

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Arnd Bergmann]

On Tuesday 24 May 2011, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> Another advantage of switching numbering models (ie 3.0 instead of
> 2.8.x) would be that it would also make the "odd numbers are also
> numbers" transition much more natural.
> 
> Because of our historical even/odd model, I wouldn't do a 2.7.x -
> there's just too much history of 2.1, 2.3, 2.5 being development
> trees. But if I do 3.0, then I'd be chucking that whole thing out the
> window, and the next release would be 3.1, 3.2, etc..

I like that. While I don't really care if you call it 2.7, 2.8 or 3.0
(or 4.0 even, if you want to keep continuity following .38 and .39),
the current 2.5/2.6 numbering cycle is almost 10 years old and has
obviously lost all significance.

The only reason I can see that would make it worthwhile waiting for
is if the enterprise and embedded people were to decide on a common
longterm kernel and call that e.g. 2.7.x or 2.8.x while you continue with
2.9.x or 3.0.x or 3.x. My impression is however that the next longterm
release is still one or two years away, so probably not worth waiting
for and hard to estimate in advance.

> Because all our releases are supposed to be stable releases these
> days, and if we get rid of one level of numbering, I feel perfectly
> fine with getting rid of the even/odd history too.

We still have stable and unstable releases, except that you call the
unstable ones -rcX and they are all nice and short, unlike the infamous
2.1.xxx series ;-)

IMHO simply changing the names from 2.6.40-rcX to 2.7.X and from
2.6.40.X to 2.6.8.X etc would be the most straightforward change
if you want to save the 3.0 release for a special moment.

Enough bike shedding from my side, please just make a decision.

	Arnd

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Alan Cox]

> If we change from 2.6.X to 3.X, then if we don't change anything else,
> then successive stable release will cause the LINUX_VERSION_CODE to be
> incremented.  This isn't necessary bad, but it would be a different
> from what we have now.

I think I prefer 3 digits. Otherwise we will have to pass 3.0, 3.1 and
3.11 all of which numbers still give older sysadmins flashbacks and will
have them waking screaming in the middle of the night.

Also saves breaking all the tools and assumptions people have been used
to for some many years

Alan

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Ralf Baechle]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 07:17:21PM -0400, Ted Ts'o wrote:

> > So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> > not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> > the fourth one.
> 
> If we change from 2.6.X to 3.X, then if we don't change anything else,
> then successive stable release will cause the LINUX_VERSION_CODE to be
> incremented.  This isn't necessary bad, but it would be a different
> from what we have now.

It will require another bunch of changes to scripts that try to make sense
out of kernel Linux version numbers.  It's a minor issue and we might be
better off doing something else than version number magic.  Not last a
new major version number raises expectations - whatever those might be.

  Ralf

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Phil Turmel]

Hi Linus,

On 05/23/2011 04:33 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>>
>> I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
>> cutting 3.0.0! :-)
> 
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.

A few months ago, I briefly considered suggesting that the demise of the BKL
would be a suitable milestone for the numbering shakeup.

But I am a mere mortal lurker, and I remember past flame-fests this topic
spawned.  So I chickened out.

As a small-scale linux evangelist, I would sure like to skip the explanation
of the version numbers.

Phil

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Ingo Molnar]

* Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:

> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> >
> > I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
> > cutting 3.0.0! :-)
> 
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.
> 
> But no, it wouldn't be for 42. Despite THHGTTG, I think "40" is a
> fairly nice round number.

Also, in all fairness, we should probably display a certain amount of humility: 
while Linux has certainly reached milestones such as world domination (as far 
as large and small computers are concerned), so calling it 3.0 is a fair deal, 
we probably have to wait for version 42.0 before we can consider the Linux 
kernel to be the ultimate answer to life, universe and everything.

Thanks,

	Ingo

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Lisa Milne]

> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.

How about stardates? That'd make a release made now 64860.8

I really should sleep more...

-- 
Lisa Milne <lisa@ltmnet.com>

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Zimny Lech]

Hi,

2011/5/24 Lisa Milne <lisa@ltmnet.com>:
>> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
>> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
>> the fourth one.
>
> How about stardates?

This is a wonderful idea! :)

> That'd make a release made now 64860.8
>
> I really should sleep more...
>
> --
> Lisa Milne <lisa@ltmnet.com>
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-- 
Slawa!
Zimny Lech z Wawelu

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Martin Nybo Andersen]

On Tue, 24 May 2011, Zimny Lech wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2011/5/24 Lisa Milne <lisa@ltmnet.com>:
>>> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
>>> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
>>> the fourth one.
>>
>> How about stardates?
>
> This is a wonderful idea! :)

I'd rather go for a gardensheduler, which can tell me the optimal color 
for any given moment *and* do the paint job. If it eventually ends this 
discussion, it could be renamed "completely fair gardensheduler".

>
>> That'd make a release made now 64860.8
>>
>> I really should sleep more...

Or drink less coffee ... ;)

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Regards,
Martin

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Matthias Schniedermeyer]

On 23.05.2011 13:33, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> >
> > I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
> > cutting 3.0.0! :-)
> 
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.

What about strictly 3 part versions? Just add a .0.

3.0.0 - Release Kernel 3.0
3.0.1 - Stable 1
3.0.2 - Stable 2
3.1.0 - Release Kernel 3.1
3.1.1 - Stable 1
...

Biggest problem is likely version phobics that get pimples when they see 
trailing zeros. ;-)




Bis denn

-- 
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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[david]

On Tue, 24 May 2011, Matthias Schniedermeyer wrote:

> On 23.05.2011 13:33, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
>>> cutting 3.0.0! :-)
>>
>> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
>> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
>> the fourth one.
>
> What about strictly 3 part versions? Just add a .0.
>
> 3.0.0 - Release Kernel 3.0
> 3.0.1 - Stable 1
> 3.0.2 - Stable 2
> 3.1.0 - Release Kernel 3.1
> 3.1.1 - Stable 1
> ...
>
> Biggest problem is likely version phobics that get pimples when they see
> trailing zeros. ;-)

since there are always issues discovered with a new kernel is released 
(which is why the -stable kernels exist), being wary of .0 kernels is not 
neccessarily a bad thing.

I still think a date based approach would be the best.

since people are worried about not knowing when a final release will 
happen, base the date on when the merge window opened or closed (always 
known at the time of the first -rc kernel)

in the thread on lwn, people pointed out that the latest 2.6.32 kernel 
would still be a 2009.12.X which doesn't reflect the fact that it was 
released this month. My suggestion for that is to make the X be the number 
of months (or years.months if you don't like large month values) between 
the merge window and the release of the -stable release. This would lead 
to a small problem when there are multiple -stable releases in a month, 
but since that doesn't last very long I don't see a real problem with just 
incramenting the month into the future in those cases.

David Lang

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Andy Lutomirski]

On 05/23/2011 04:33 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar<mingo@elte.hu>  wrote:
>>
>> I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42 before
>> cutting 3.0.0! :-)
>
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.
>
> But no, it wouldn't be for 42. Despite THHGTTG, I think "40" is a
> fairly nice round number.
>
> There's also the timing issue - since we no longer do version numbers
> based on features, but based on time, just saying "we're about to
> start the third decade" works as well as any other excuse.
>

I don't think year-based versions (like 2011.0 for the first 2011 
release, or maybe 2011.5 for May 2011) are pretty, but I'll make an 
argument for them anyway: it makes it easier to figure out when hardware 
ought to be supported.

So if I buy a 2014-model laptop and the coffee-making button doesn't 
work, and my favorite distro is running the 2013 kernel, then I know I 
shouldn't expect to it to work.  (Graphics drivers are probably a more 
realistic example.)

Also, when someone in my lab installs <insert ancient enterprise distro 
here> on a box that's running software I wrote that needs to support 
modern high-speed peripherals, then I can say "What?  You seriously 
expect this stuff to work on Linux 2007?  Let's install a slightly less 
stable distro from at least 2010."  This sounds a lot less nerdy than 
"What?  You seriously expect this stuff to work on Linux 2.6.27?  Let's 
install a slightly less stable distro that uses at least 2.6.36."


--Andy

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Jiri Kosina]

On Tue, 24 May 2011, Andy Lutomirski wrote:

> Also, when someone in my lab installs <insert ancient enterprise distro 
> here> on a box that's running software I wrote that needs to support 
> modern high-speed peripherals, then I can say "What?  You seriously 
> expect this stuff to work on Linux 2007?  Let's install a slightly less 
> stable distro from at least 2010."  This sounds a lot less nerdy than 
> "What?  You seriously expect this stuff to work on Linux 2.6.27?  Let's 
> install a slightly less stable distro that uses at least 2.6.36."

I hate to jump into this excellent example of bike-shedding discussion, 
but anyway ...

Your example doesn't really reflect reality.

It's common for older enterprise distributions to gradually incorporate a 
lot of backported code (and most importantly new hardware support 
code/drivers) while not upgrading the kernel major version. So yes, you 
will in reality get 2.6.16 kernel (at least according to uname) with 
libata with newer service packs of SLES 10, for example (and you could 
find many of those across distributions).

-- 
Jiri Kosina
SUSE Labs

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Hans-Peter Jansen]

On Monday 23 May 2011, 22:33:48 Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> > I really hope there's also a voice that tells you to wait until .42
> > before cutting 3.0.0! :-)
>
> So I'm toying with 3.0 (and in that case, it really would be "3.0",
> not "3.0.0" - the stable team would get the third digit rather than
> the fourth one.
>
> But no, it wouldn't be for 42. Despite THHGTTG, I think "40" is a
> fairly nice round number.
>
> There's also the timing issue - since we no longer do version numbers
> based on features, but based on time, just saying "we're about to
> start the third decade" works as well as any other excuse.

But hey, do you really want to release a Linux 3.0 kernel without 
serious layered filesystem functionality? 

Shame on you,
Pete

PS.: Sorry for being such a pest in this regard, but filesystem layering 
is one of the most important missing bits to excel out of the box in
 * live distros 
 * diskless computing
 * flash based systems
Even the linux based commercial PBX solution (mobydick), I bought, ships 
with it.
PPS.: Bad timing, I know, but I'm glad, that Al is back to life again..

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Greg KH]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:13:29PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> PS. The voices in my head also tell me that the numbers are getting
> too big. I may just call the thing 2.8.0. And I almost guarantee that
> this PS is going to result in more discussion than the rest, but when
> the voices tell me to do things, I listen.

If you do this, I will buy you a bottle of whatever whiskey you want
that I can get my hands on in Tokyo next week.

{crosses fingers}

greg k-h

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[James Bottomley]

On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 12:22 -0700, Greg KH wrote:
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:13:29PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > PS. The voices in my head also tell me that the numbers are getting
> > too big. I may just call the thing 2.8.0. And I almost guarantee that
> > this PS is going to result in more discussion than the rest, but when
> > the voices tell me to do things, I listen.
> 
> If you do this, I will buy you a bottle of whatever whiskey you want
> that I can get my hands on in Tokyo next week.

I can recommend Hanyu Ace of Spades ...  I can even arrange to be on
hand just to make sure it's as good as it should be ...

James


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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Thomas Gleixner]

On Mon, 23 May 2011, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> PS. The voices in my head also tell me that the numbers are getting
> too big. I may just call the thing 2.8.0. And I almost guarantee that
> this PS is going to result in more discussion than the rest, but when
> the voices tell me to do things, I listen.

So the voices tell you to avoid .42 ?

Thanks,

	tglx

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Randy Dunlap]

On Mon, 23 May 2011 21:25:25 +0200 (CEST) Thomas Gleixner wrote:

> On Mon, 23 May 2011, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > PS. The voices in my head also tell me that the numbers are getting
> > too big. I may just call the thing 2.8.0. And I almost guarantee that
> > this PS is going to result in more discussion than the rest, but when
> > the voices tell me to do things, I listen.
> 
> So the voices tell you to avoid .42 ?

They tell him to avoid the question to which 42 is the answer.

---
~Randy
*** Remember to use Documentation/SubmitChecklist when testing your code ***

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Re: (Short?) merge window reminder

[Steven Rostedt]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 01:21:26PM -0700, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> 
> They tell him to avoid the question to which 42 is the answer.

What 2.6 Linux kernel version was the last before 3.0?

-- Steve

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