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From: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>
To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Cc: "Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	"Frédéric Weisbecker" <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
	"Larry Woodman" <lwoodman@redhat.com>,
	"Peter Zijlstra" <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	"Pekka Enberg" <penberg@cs.helsinki.fi>,
	"Eduard - Gabriel Munteanu" <eduard.munteanu@linux360.ro>,
	"Andrew Morton" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"KOSAKI Motohiro" <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	"Andi Kleen" <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	"Matt Mackall" <mpm@selenic.com>,
	"Alexey Dobriyan" <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
	"linux-mm@kvack.org" <linux-mm@kvack.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 5/5] proc: export more page flags in /proc/kpageflags
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:33:20 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090428083320.GB17038@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20090428065507.GA2024@elte.hu>

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:55:07AM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> 
> * Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com> wrote:
> 
> > Export 9 page flags in /proc/kpageflags, and 8 more for kernel developers.
> > 
> > 1) for kernel hackers (on CONFIG_DEBUG_KERNEL)
> >    - all available page flags are exported, and
> >    - exported as is
> > 2) for admins and end users
> >    - only the more `well known' flags are exported:
> > 	11. KPF_MMAP		(pseudo flag) memory mapped page
> > 	12. KPF_ANON		(pseudo flag) memory mapped page (anonymous)
> > 	13. KPF_SWAPCACHE	page is in swap cache
> > 	14. KPF_SWAPBACKED	page is swap/RAM backed
> > 	15. KPF_COMPOUND_HEAD	(*)
> > 	16. KPF_COMPOUND_TAIL	(*)
> > 	17. KPF_UNEVICTABLE	page is in the unevictable LRU list
> > 	18. KPF_HWPOISON	hardware detected corruption
> > 	19. KPF_NOPAGE		(pseudo flag) no page frame at the address
> > 
> > 	(*) For compound pages, exporting _both_ head/tail info enables
> > 	    users to tell where a compound page starts/ends, and its order.
> > 
> >    - limit flags to their typical usage scenario, as indicated by KOSAKI:
> > 	- LRU pages: only export relevant flags
> > 		- PG_lru
> > 		- PG_unevictable
> > 		- PG_active
> > 		- PG_referenced
> > 		- page_mapped()
> > 		- PageAnon()
> > 		- PG_swapcache
> > 		- PG_swapbacked
> > 		- PG_reclaim
> > 	- no-IO pages: mask out irrelevant flags
> > 		- PG_dirty
> > 		- PG_uptodate
> > 		- PG_writeback
> > 	- SLAB pages: mask out overloaded flags:
> > 		- PG_error
> > 		- PG_active
> > 		- PG_private
> > 	- PG_reclaim: mask out the overloaded PG_readahead
> > 	- compound flags: only export huge/gigantic pages
> > 
> > Here are the admin/linus views of all page flags on a newly booted nfs-root system:
> > 
> > # ./page-types # for admin
> >          flags  page-count       MB  symbolic-flags                     long-symbolic-flags
> > 0x000000000000      491174     1918  ____________________________                
> > 0x000000000020           1        0  _____l______________________       lru      
> > 0x000000000028        2543        9  ___U_l______________________       uptodate,lru
> > 0x00000000002c        5288       20  __RU_l______________________       referenced,uptodate,lru
> > 0x000000004060           1        0  _____lA_______b_____________       lru,active,swapbacked
> 
> I think i have to NAK this kind of ad-hoc instrumentation of kernel 
> internals and statistics until we clear up why such instrumentation 
> measures are being accepted into the MM while other, more dynamic 
> and more flexible MM instrumentation are being resisted by Andrew.

An unexpected NAK - to throw away an orange because we are to have an apple? ;-)

Anyway here are the missing rationals.

1) FAST

It takes merely 0.2s to scan 4GB pages:

        ./page-types  0.02s user 0.20s system 99% cpu 0.216 total

2) SIMPLE

/proc/kpageflags will be a *long standing* hack we have to live with -
it was originally introduced by Matt to do shared memory accounting and
a facility to analyze applications' memory consumptions, with the hope
it will also help kernel developers someday.

So why not extend and embrace it, in a straightforward way?

3) USE CASES

I have/will take advantage of the above page-types command in a number ways:
- to help track down memory leak (the recent trace/ring_buffer.c case)
- to estimate the system wide readahead miss ratio
- Andi want to examine the major page types in different workloads
  (for the hwpoison work)
- Me too, for fun of learning: read/write/lock/whatever a lot of pages
  and examine their flags, to get an idea of some random kernel behaviors.
  (the dynamic tracing tools can be more helpful, as a different view)

4) COMPLEMENTARITY

In some cases the dynamic tracing tool is not enough (or too complex)
to rebuild the current status view.

I myself have a dynamic readahead tracing tool(very useful!).
At the same time I also use readahead accounting numbers, and the
/proc/filecache tool(frequently!), and the above page-types tool.
I simply need them all - they are handy for different cases.

Thanks,
Fengguang

> The above type of condensed information can be built out of dynamic 
> trace data too - and much more. Being able to track page state 
> transitions is very valuable when debugging VM problems. One such 
> 'view' of trace data would be a summary histogram like above.
> 
> ( done after a "echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches" to make sure all 
>   interesting pages have been re-established and their state is 
>   present in the trace. )
> 
> The SLAB code already has such a facility, kmemtrace: it's very 
> useful and successful in visualizing complex SLAB details, both 
> dynamically and statically.
> 
> I think the same general approach should be used for the page 
> allocator too (and for the page cache and some other struct page 
> based caches): the life-time of an object should be followed. If we 
> capture the important details we capture the big picture too. Pekka 
> already sent an RFC patch to extend kmemtrace in such a fashion. Why 
> is that more useful method not being pursued?
> 
> By extending upon the (existing) /proc/kpageflags hack a usecase is 
> taken away from the tracing based solution and a needless overlap is 
> created - and that's not particularly helpful IMHO. We now have all 
> the facilities upstream that allow us to do intelligent 
> instrumentation - we should make use of them.
> 
> 	Ingo
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
> the body to majordomo@kvack.org.  For more info on Linux MM,
> see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ .
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2009-04-28  9:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 68+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-04-28  1:09 [PATCH 0/5] proc: export more page flags in /proc/kpageflags (take 4) Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  1:09 ` [PATCH 1/5] pagemap: document clarifications Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  7:11   ` Tommi Rantala
2009-04-28  1:09 ` [PATCH 2/5] pagemap: documentation 9 more exported page flags Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  1:09 ` [PATCH 3/5] mm: introduce PageHuge() for testing huge/gigantic pages Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  1:09 ` [PATCH 4/5] proc: kpagecount/kpageflags code cleanup Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  1:09 ` [PATCH 5/5] proc: export more page flags in /proc/kpageflags Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  6:55   ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28  7:40     ` Andi Kleen
2009-04-28  9:04       ` Pekka Enberg
2009-04-28  9:10         ` Andi Kleen
2009-04-28  9:15           ` Pekka Enberg
2009-04-28  9:15         ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28  9:19           ` Pekka Enberg
2009-04-28  9:25             ` Pekka Enberg
2009-04-28  9:36               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28  9:36               ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28  9:57                 ` Pekka Enberg
2009-04-28 10:10                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28 10:21                     ` Pekka Enberg
2009-04-28 10:56                       ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28 11:09                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28 12:42                           ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28 11:03                   ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28 17:42                 ` Matt Mackall
2009-04-28  9:29             ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28  9:34               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28  9:38                 ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28  9:55                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28 10:11                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-04-28 11:05                     ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28 11:36                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28 12:17                         ` [rfc] object collection tracing (was: [PATCH 5/5] proc: export more page flags in /proc/kpageflags) Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28 13:31                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-12 13:01                             ` Frederic Weisbecker
2009-05-17 13:36                               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-17 13:55                                 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2009-05-17 14:12                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-05-18 11:44                                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-05-18 11:47                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28 10:18                   ` [PATCH 5/5] proc: export more page flags in /proc/kpageflags Andi Kleen
2009-04-28  8:33     ` Wu Fengguang [this message]
2009-04-28  9:24       ` Ingo Molnar
2009-04-28 18:11       ` Tony Luck
2009-04-28 18:34         ` Matt Mackall
2009-04-28 20:47           ` Tony Luck
2009-04-28 20:54             ` Andi Kleen
2009-04-28 20:59             ` Matt Mackall
2009-04-28 21:17         ` Andrew Morton
2009-04-28 21:49           ` Matt Mackall
2009-04-29  0:02             ` Robin Holt
2009-04-28 17:49   ` Matt Mackall
2009-04-29  8:05     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-29 19:13       ` Matt Mackall
2009-04-30  1:00         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-28 21:32   ` Andrew Morton
2009-04-28 22:46     ` Matt Mackall
2009-04-28 23:02       ` Andrew Morton
2009-04-28 23:31         ` Matt Mackall
2009-04-28 23:42           ` Andrew Morton
2009-04-28 23:55             ` Matt Mackall
2009-04-29  3:33               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-29  2:38     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-29  2:55       ` Andrew Morton
2009-04-29  3:48         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-29  5:09           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-04-29  4:41       ` Nathan Lynch
2009-04-29  4:50         ` Andrew Morton

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