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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: Dave Hansen <dave@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
Cc: Mike Travis <travis@sgi.com>,
	Christoph Lameter <cl@linux-foundation.org>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, Marcelo Tosatti <mtosatti@redhat.com>,
	Adam Litke <agl@us.ibm.com>, Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>,
	Izik Eidus <ieidus@redhat.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh.dickins@tiscali.co.uk>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>, Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>,
	Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Chris Wright <chrisw@sous-sol.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Stephen C. Tweedie" <sct@redhat.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: Swap on flash SSDs
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 20:39:11 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20091218193911.GA6153@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1261164487.27372.1735.camel@nimitz>


* Dave Hansen <dave@linux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-12-18 at 11:17 -0800, Mike Travis wrote:
>
> > Interesting discussion about SSD's.  I was under the impression that with 
> > the finite number of write cycles to an SSD, that unnecessary writes were 
> > to be avoided?
> 
> I'm no expert, but my impression was that this was a problem with other 
> devices and with "bare" flash, and mostly when writing to the same place 
> over and over.
> 
> Modern, well-made flash SSDs and other flash devices have wear-leveling 
> built in so that they wear all of the flash cells evenly.  There's still a 
> discrete number of writes that they can handle over their life, but it 
> should be high enough that you don't notice.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive

A quality SDD is supposed to wear off in continuous non-stop write traffic 
after its Mean Time Between Failures. (Obviously it will take a few years for 
drives to gather that kind of true physical track record - right now what we 
have is the claims of manufacturers and 1-2 years of a track record.)

And even when a cell does go bad and all the spares are gone, the failure mode 
is not catastrophic like with a hard disk, but that particular cell goes 
read-only and you can still recover the info and use the remaining cells.

Sidenote: i think we should make the Linux swap code resilient against write 
IO errors of that fashion and reallocate the swap entry to a free slot. Right 
now in mm/page_io.c's end_swap_bio_write() we do this:

                /*
                 * We failed to write the page out to swap-space.
                 * Re-dirty the page in order to avoid it being reclaimed.
                 * Also print a dire warning that things will go BAD (tm)
                 * very quickly.
                 *
                 * Also clear PG_reclaim to avoid rotate_reclaimable_page()
                 */
                set_page_dirty(page);
                printk(KERN_ALERT "Write-error on swap-device (%u:%u:%Lu)\n",
                                imajor(bio->bi_bdev->bd_inode),
                                iminor(bio->bi_bdev->bd_inode),
                                (unsigned long long)bio->bi_sector);
                ClearPageReclaim(page);

We could be more intelligent than printing a scary error: we could clear that 
page from the swap map [permanently] and retry. It will still have a long-term 
failure mode when all swap pages are depleted - but that's still quite a slow 
failure mode and it is actionable via servicing.

	Ingo

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2009-12-18 19:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-12-17 19:00 [PATCH 00 of 28] Transparent Hugepage support #2 Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 01 of 28] compound_lock Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:46   ` Christoph Lameter
2009-12-18 14:27     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 02 of 28] alter compound get_page/put_page Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:50   ` Christoph Lameter
2009-12-18 14:30     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 03 of 28] clear compound mapping Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 04 of 28] add native_set_pmd_at Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 05 of 28] add pmd paravirt ops Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 06 of 28] no paravirt version of pmd ops Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 07 of 28] export maybe_mkwrite Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 08 of 28] comment reminder in destroy_compound_page Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 09 of 28] config_transparent_hugepage Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 10 of 28] add pmd mangling functions to x86 Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18 18:56   ` Mel Gorman
2009-12-19 15:27     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 11 of 28] add pmd mangling generic functions Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 12 of 28] special pmd_trans_* functions Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 13 of 28] bail out gup_fast on freezed pmd Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18 18:59   ` Mel Gorman
2009-12-19 15:48     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 14 of 28] pte alloc trans splitting Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18 19:03   ` Mel Gorman
2009-12-19 15:59     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-21 19:57       ` Mel Gorman
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 15 of 28] add pmd mmu_notifier helpers Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 16 of 28] clear page compound Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 17 of 28] add pmd_huge_pte to mm_struct Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 18 of 28] ensure mapcount is taken on head pages Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 19 of 28] split_huge_page_mm/vma Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 20 of 28] split_huge_page paging Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 21 of 28] pmd_trans_huge migrate bugcheck Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 22 of 28] clear_huge_page fix Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18 19:16   ` Mel Gorman
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 23 of 28] clear_copy_huge_page Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 24 of 28] kvm mmu transparent hugepage support Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 25 of 28] transparent hugepage core Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18 20:03   ` Mel Gorman
2009-12-19 16:41     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-21 20:31       ` Mel Gorman
2009-12-23  0:06         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-23  6:09           ` Paul Mundt
2010-01-03 18:38           ` Mel Gorman
2010-01-04 15:49             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2010-01-04 16:58             ` Christoph Lameter
2010-01-04  6:16   ` Daisuke Nishimura
2010-01-04 16:04     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 26 of 28] madvise(MADV_HUGEPAGE) Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 27 of 28] memcg compound Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18  1:27   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-12-18 16:02     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 19:00 ` [PATCH 28 of 28] memcg huge memory Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18  1:33   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-12-18 16:04     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18 23:06       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-12-20 18:39         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-21  0:26           ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-12-21  1:24             ` Daisuke Nishimura
2009-12-21  3:52               ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-12-21  4:33                 ` Daisuke Nishimura
2009-12-25  4:17                   ` Daisuke Nishimura
2009-12-25  4:37                     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-12-24 10:00   ` Balbir Singh
2009-12-24 11:40     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-24 12:07       ` Balbir Singh
2009-12-17 19:54 ` [PATCH 00 of 28] Transparent Hugepage support #2 Christoph Lameter
2009-12-17 19:58   ` Rik van Riel
2009-12-17 20:09     ` Christoph Lameter
2009-12-18  5:12       ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-18  6:18         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-12-18 18:28         ` Christoph Lameter
2009-12-18 18:41           ` Dave Hansen
2009-12-18 19:17             ` Mike Travis
2009-12-18 19:28               ` Swap on flash SSDs Dave Hansen
2009-12-18 19:38                 ` Andi Kleen
2009-12-18 19:39                 ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2009-12-18 20:13                   ` Linus Torvalds
2009-12-18 20:31                     ` Ingo Molnar
2009-12-19 18:38                   ` Jörn Engel
2009-12-18 14:05       ` [PATCH 00 of 28] Transparent Hugepage support #2 Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18 18:33         ` Christoph Lameter
2009-12-19 15:09           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-17 20:47     ` Mike Travis
2009-12-18  3:28       ` Rik van Riel
2009-12-18 14:12       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-12-18 12:52     ` Avi Kivity
2009-12-18 18:47 ` Dave Hansen
2009-12-19 15:20   ` Andrea Arcangeli

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