From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDF98C25B42 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:05:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id 1796B8D01D5; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id 129118D0008; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:05:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id F32D48D01D5; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:05:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from relay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0017.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.17]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11E58D0008 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpin26.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7EC9A0560 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:05:12 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 81367070064.26.5C91927 Received: from ams.source.kernel.org (ams.source.kernel.org [145.40.68.75]) by imf26.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C6114001D for ; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:05:09 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: imf26.hostedemail.com; dkim=pass header.d=kernel.org header.s=k20201202 header.b=CxRn5Wen; spf=pass (imf26.hostedemail.com: domain of jlayton@kernel.org designates 145.40.68.75 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jlayton@kernel.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=kernel.org ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hostedemail.com; s=arc-20220608; t=1697835910; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=Elxhk2Dpng0QYormybPqQvqGrljIJdvhIjHnQugf8Aw=; b=1WAZRqFGaJDPiyjW0swRFZIhRFEJ8NTLscUu7wj9OqC2YuElnxFq1Ery1nlpgw7eCVw/dP namNpv++9TcsF2nqHLH67z8n0P1Y1Bi7RpRd6pbBQlU6QSzHm3tac9jaKsQtVaa7Xlrj4+ Fl4Ncm1JBC4xHXFow3stXKU3Hu22Fwo= ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-20220608; d=hostedemail.com; t=1697835910; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=axf6X6EQ6ZUaKwAZeGF9aLpVUo7lcRFP7ZtspDZOR/KeJ9q+3vvQY2bBBKF8t7IyIXU1Jr /3H1PqZmOw9UDfBopPIeFKWh6mbzmh0QfqykrFbpAMohuJ9Al8sw5cO5pKt0CDG8jKyhUQ xK3gcN364+TRnFR4TYbYMF3hyX/Isu4= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; imf26.hostedemail.com; dkim=pass header.d=kernel.org header.s=k20201202 header.b=CxRn5Wen; spf=pass (imf26.hostedemail.com: domain of jlayton@kernel.org designates 145.40.68.75 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jlayton@kernel.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=kernel.org Received: from smtp.kernel.org (transwarp.subspace.kernel.org [100.75.92.58]) by ams.source.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F27FB83426; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:05:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4056BC433C7; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:05:05 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1697835907; bh=Elxhk2Dpng0QYormybPqQvqGrljIJdvhIjHnQugf8Aw=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=CxRn5Wen+tHmFyOjC5cErUb4FjXC/5aXJGY8YCKssgsr8mHrQ6FS4MqWkmUwlKa6O njiflYbjExbJJ4hmFju1xJi01RSXH4oemQqyQNGsTjbV2jEbsCLpu0+CEzMhSS+kPH qLHZGbGZ8re9P6Mgpk/IcJ+27RzSwckdZHUhZxagACHPGeIYfBcWITdudsTDqALdUx t9SSVavuWrkfW5vhC/g9L5WemB+jWjWlxzfHH6aYJ2P8WmEgK7zAe1adYDuOtMOzR1 XwX2fAnz3V3D2eIBCalnWQDUdtWsh4JzFqOf3ISEKtU+d7C9zwH90UOwNXGOhznsYN Cmm9MoAgXB2qA== Message-ID: <301d4acd4dd208239c00cec196d1c26c6bcf1a91.camel@kernel.org> Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 2/9] timekeeping: new interfaces for multigrain timestamp handing From: Jeff Layton To: Linus Torvalds Cc: Dave Chinner , Kent Overstreet , Christian Brauner , Alexander Viro , John Stultz , Thomas Gleixner , Stephen Boyd , Chandan Babu R , "Darrick J. Wong" , Theodore Ts'o , Andreas Dilger , Chris Mason , Josef Bacik , David Sterba , Hugh Dickins , Andrew Morton , Amir Goldstein , Jan Kara , David Howells , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:05:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <20231018-mgtime-v1-0-4a7a97b1f482@kernel.org> <20231018-mgtime-v1-2-4a7a97b1f482@kernel.org> <5f96e69d438ab96099bb67d16b77583c99911caa.camel@kernel.org> <20231019-fluor-skifahren-ec74ceb6c63e@brauner> <0a1a847af4372e62000b259e992850527f587205.camel@kernel.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.4 (3.48.4-1.fc38) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Stat-Signature: okhaghdq8w9aifc33xpps95nq7yj1iqx X-Rspamd-Server: rspam10 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E5C6114001D X-Rspam-User: X-HE-Tag: 1697835909-124402 X-HE-Meta: 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 IXi8+FCY Vr+D8eEpXQ+K5tDBamFENbwyeiKsOefk/uQjO8/dFyw1VOCFt4J2lHyFTzUWHnFWQ5gXu9GdihN2ZT+2lilqXgdf+eUIwxPUwQl1peucNsMnxvwqF4wC2CV6d2qMkv/7CdkCOLeZ9scTdLsE8tWMExj65qB+oLbknWS5/EfgGc31jymIkfA9eAYhkQ7G0sJ5Vm6fNs03nKnusi8cYg2Zfh/uvGH1x8Esmfrs49CRfZbX6+yglqKxnZn0bTQ== X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On Fri, 2023-10-20 at 13:06 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 at 05:12, Jeff Layton wrote:. > >=20 > > I'd _really_ like to see a proper change counter added before it's > > merged, or at least space in the on-disk inode reserved for one until w= e > > can get it plumbed in. >=20 > Hmm. Can we not perhaps just do an in-memory change counter, and try > to initialize it to a random value when instantiating an inode? Do we > even *require* on-disk format changes? >=20 > So on reboot, the inode would count as "changed" as far any remote > user is concerned. It would flush client caches, but isn't that what > you'd want anyway? I'd hate to waste lots of memory, but maybe people > would be ok with just a 32-bit random value. And if not... >=20 > But I actually came into this whole discussion purely through the > inode timestamp side, so I may *entirely* miss what the change counter > requirements for NFSd actually are. If it needs to be stable across > reboots, my idea is clearly complete garbage. >=20 > You can now all jump on me and point out my severe intellectual > limitations. Please use small words when you do ;) >=20 Much like inode timestamps, we do depend on the change attribute persisting across reboots. Having to invalidate all of your cached data just because the server rebooted is particularly awful. That usually results in the server being hammered with reads from all of the clients at once, soon after rebooting. --=20 Jeff Layton