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From: Rik van Riel To: Kairui Song Cc: Nhat Pham , "David Hildenbrand (Arm)" , Johannes Weiner , Chris Li , Baoquan He , Michal Hocko , Roman Gushchin , Shakeel Butt , Yosry Ahmed , Muchun Song , Kemeng Shi , Barry Song , YoungJun Park , Chengming Zhou , "Lorenzo Stoakes (Oracle)" , "Liam R. Howlett" , "Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)" , Mike Rapoport , Suren =?UTF-8?Q?Baghdasaryan=EF=BF=BC?= , Qi Zheng , Axel Rasmussen , Yuanchu Xie , Wei Xu , Gregory Price , Wenchao Hao , Jonathan Corbet , Hugh Dickins , Baolin Wang , Tejun Heo , Michal =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Koutn=FD?= , Shuah Khan , Kunwu Chan , Meta kernel team , Linux Memory Management List , Linux Kernel Mailing List , linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, "open list:CONTROL GROUP - MEMORY RESOURCE CONTROLLER (MEMCG)" , Andrew Morton , Joshua Hahn Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2026 11:58:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <5fdb3777-95a2-48f9-bb38-aa4ba3c96a81@kernel.org> <5ca344de-bc34-4a9b-ab85-f553811a1d9c@kernel.org> <5c8a2b7b-b76d-4bba-92e1-ec3d66794273@kernel.org> <20261014195354.GA371161@cmpxchg.org> <12081d266e4846f23faacfc65c7be7da4ed013a9.camel@surriel.com> Autocrypt: addr=riel@surriel.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=mQENBFIt3aUBCADCK0LicyCYyMa0E1lodCDUBf6G+6C5UXKG1jEYwQu49cc/gUBTTk33A eo2hjn4JinVaPF3zfZprnKMEGGv4dHvEOCPWiNhlz5RtqH3SKJllq2dpeMS9RqbMvDA36rlJIIo47 Z/nl6IA8MDhSqyqdnTY8z7LnQHqq16jAqwo7Ll9qALXz4yG1ZdSCmo80VPetBZZPw7WMjo+1hByv/ lvdFnLfiQ52tayuuC1r9x2qZ/SYWd2M4p/f5CLmvG9UcnkbYFsKWz8bwOBWKg1PQcaYHLx06sHGdY dIDaeVvkIfMFwAprSo5EFU+aes2VB2ZjugOTbkkW2aPSWTRsBhPHhV6dABEBAAG0HlJpayB2YW4gU mllbCA8cmllbEByZWRoYXQuY29tPokBHwQwAQIACQUCW5LcVgIdIAAKCRDOed6ShMTeg05SB/986o gEgdq4byrtaBQKFg5LWfd8e+h+QzLOg/T8mSS3dJzFXe5JBOfvYg7Bj47xXi9I5sM+I9Lu9+1XVb/ r2rGJrU1DwA09TnmyFtK76bgMF0sBEh1ECILYNQTEIemzNFwOWLZZlEhZFRJsZyX+mtEp/WQIygHV WjwuP69VJw+fPQvLOGn4j8W9QXuvhha7u1QJ7mYx4dLGHrZlHdwDsqpvWsW+3rsIqs1BBe5/Itz9o 6y9gLNtQzwmSDioV8KhF85VmYInslhv5tUtMEppfdTLyX4SUKh8ftNIVmH9mXyRCZclSoa6IMd635 Jq1Pj2/Lp64tOzSvN5Y9zaiCc5FucXtB9SaWsgdmFuIFJpZWwgPHJpZWxAc3VycmllbC5jb20+iQE +BBMBAgAoBQJSLd2lAhsjBQkSzAMABgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDOed6ShMTe g4PpB/0ZivKYFt0LaB22ssWUrBoeNWCP1NY/lkq2QbPhR3agLB7ZXI97PF2z/5QD9Fuy/FD/jddPx KRTvFCtHcEzTOcFjBmf52uqgt3U40H9GM++0IM0yHusd9EzlaWsbp09vsAV2DwdqS69x9RPbvE/Ne fO5subhocH76okcF/aQiQ+oj2j6LJZGBJBVigOHg+4zyzdDgKM+jp0bvDI51KQ4XfxV593OhvkS3z 3FPx0CE7l62WhWrieHyBblqvkTYgJ6dq4bsYpqxxGJOkQ47WpEUx6onH+rImWmPJbSYGhwBzTo0Mm G1Nb1qGPG+mTrSmJjDRxrwf1zjmYqQreWVSFEt26tBpSaWsgdmFuIFJpZWwgPHJpZWxAZmIuY29tP okBPgQTAQIAKAUCW5LbiAIbIwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQznneko TE3oOUEQgAsrGxjTC1bGtZyuvyQPcXclap11Ogib6rQywGYu6/Mnkbd6hbyY3wpdyQii/cas2S44N cQj8HkGv91JLVE24/Wt0gITPCH3rLVJJDGQxprHTVDs1t1RAbsbp0XTksZPCNWDGYIBo2aHDwErhI omYQ0Xluo1WBtH/UmHgirHvclsou1Ks9jyTxiPyUKRfae7GNOFiX99+ZlB27P3t8CjtSO831Ij0Ip QrfooZ21YVlUKw0Wy6Ll8EyefyrEYSh8KTm8dQj4O7xxvdg865TLeLpho5PwDRF+/mR3qi8CdGbkE c4pYZQO8UDXUN4S+pe0aTeTqlYw8rRHWF9TnvtpcNzZw== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.60.2 (3.60.2-2.fc44) X-Archived-By: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0540A4000A X-Rspam-User: X-Stat-Signature: mrpj7dqa68ihp4p748nhyf87cg9asakg X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 X-Rspamd-Server: rspam03 X-HE-Tag: 1793030413-739897 X-HE-Meta: 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 hG/tLy3u FB5B14kvJJnwx3g5KvA5h4QyXukM5nz1ENLuP1IosiG8YHX5e1LqqTVl2L5UYsL0mKR9jfMdT5AqP2Ea+IvuGXDtpzV/JtloRRbs8yrhs/bXDx+dQc9S6C9jWZhs32aNqQg/UOKxOF6t7J5uX6bg5VEbF7p+oPp6/SAQLuxNFbMMppmNTpAuiNdNe6fBpG+TrXSB6A4Q1u3HXrdHYYqJHaGL0Bjy1zZX5mI4rTrZDKCF2X1IumMlB/eIqUh6xHe6X7X9vdCPWHrsapZEbgC0gaQ/+s8f30sk3a4vhSmcp/Xjrc4qzzN8dD1evc9BNE8PQI9xOcGbZ6dObUThot4dArpQjd5uVpFRPc2a0MlW0sr9ccJlT2vaIHC2GL47qD069sHfu3NvFiF1PLBuGXLEOllFm38pq7+Edv4MWCeVsmNG2aDdJi4mZiMrMcF4R3KJ3PRw3nbhYecujMPc= Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-26) on aws-us-west-2-korg-listserv-alma10-1 On Sun, 2026-10-25 at 12:21 +0800, Kairui Song wrote: > Rik van Riel =E4=BA=8E 2026=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=8825=E6= =97=A5=E5=91=A8=E6=97=A5 02:16=E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A > >=20 > > On Sat, 2026-10-24 at 23:50 +0800, Kairui Song wrote: > > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2026 at 4:03=E2=80=AFAM Rik van Riel > > > wrote: > > > >=20 > > > > In my mind, we have vswap sitting as kind > > > > of a swap VFS between the rest of the system > > > > and the swap devices: > > > >=20 > > > > +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +------------+ > > > > > vswap |-----| swap cache | > > > > +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +------------+ > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +----------+-----------+ > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | > > > > +---+---+=C2=A0 +---+---+=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+---+ > > > > > swap=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 | zswap |=C2=A0=C2=A0 | zram=C2=A0 | > > > > > file=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0= =C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | > > > > +-------+=C2=A0 +-------+=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-------+ > > > >=20 >=20 > > However, having swapoff remove all data from the swap > > cache, after mapping the memory back into userspace > > page tables, seems like it would be fairly easy to do. > >=20 > > Does that meet the needs of your use case? >=20 > Right, it's nothing hard, as long as we don't add mandatory new > layers. For very high bandwidth swap devices, a mandatory indirection > layer is pure overhead.=20 Don't we need a swap cache lookup regardless, to make sure the data we want to swap into the process is not already present in memory? At that point, it shouldn't matter whether we get the backing swap location from the swap cache lookup data structure, or from the page tables? We have the page table lookup, and the swap cache lookup. That is two lookups, regardless of whether there is indirection, or not. Am I missing something? --=20 All Rights Reversed.