From: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
To: Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
Hillf Danton <dhillf@gmail.com>, Dan Smith <danms@us.ibm.com>,
Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>,
Suresh Siddha <suresh.b.siddha@intel.com>,
Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de>,
"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
Lai Jiangshan <laijs@cn.fujitsu.com>,
Bharata B Rao <bharata.rao@gmail.com>,
Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>,
Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
Srivatsa Vaddagiri <vatsa@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
Christoph Lameter <cl@linux.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/35] AutoNUMA alpha14
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 13:28:11 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4FC112AB.1040605@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1337965359-29725-1-git-send-email-aarcange@redhat.com>
On 05/25/2012 01:02 PM, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> I believe (realistically speaking) nobody is going to change
> applications to specify which thread is using which memory (for
> threaded apps) with the only exception of QEMU and a few others.
This is the point of contention. I believe that for some
programs these kinds of modifications might happen, but
that for some other programs - managed runtimes like JVMs -
it is fundamentally impossible to do proper NUMA hinting,
because the programming languages that run on top of the
runtimes have no concept of pointers or memory ranges, making
it impossible to do those kinds of hints without fundamentally
changing the programming languages in question.
It would be good to get everybody's ideas out there on this
topic, because this is the fundamental factor in deciding
between Peter's approach to NUMA and Andrea's approach.
Ingo? Andrew? Linus? Paul?
> For not threaded apps that fits in a NUMA node, there's no way a blind
> home node can perform nearly as good as AutoNUMA:
The small tasks are easy. I suspect that either implementation
can be tuned to produce good results there.
It is the large programs (that do not fit in a NUMA node, either
due to too much memory, or due to too many threads) that will
force our hand in deciding whether to go with Peter's approach
or your approach.
I believe we do need to carefully think about this issue, decide
on a NUMA approach based on the fundamental technical properties of
each approach.
After we figure out what we want to do, we can nit-pick on the
codebase in question, and make sure it gets completely fixed.
I am sure neither codebase is perfect right now, but both are
entirely fixable.
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2012-05-26 17:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 116+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2012-05-25 17:02 [PATCH 00/35] AutoNUMA alpha14 Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 01/35] mm: add unlikely to the mm allocation failure check Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 02/35] autonuma: make set_pmd_at always available Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 03/35] xen: document Xen is using an unused bit for the pagetables Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 20:26 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2012-05-26 15:59 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 14:10 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2012-05-29 16:01 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 04/35] autonuma: define _PAGE_NUMA_PTE and _PAGE_NUMA_PMD Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-30 18:22 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2012-05-30 18:34 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-30 20:01 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2012-06-05 17:13 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-06-05 17:17 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2012-06-05 17:40 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 05/35] autonuma: x86 pte_numa() and pmd_numa() Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 06/35] autonuma: generic " Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-30 20:23 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 07/35] autonuma: teach gup_fast about pte_numa Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 08/35] autonuma: introduce kthread_bind_node() Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 12:49 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 16:11 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 17:04 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 17:44 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 17:48 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 18:15 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-30 20:26 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 09/35] autonuma: mm_autonuma and sched_autonuma data structures Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 10/35] autonuma: define the autonuma flags Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 11/35] autonuma: core autonuma.h header Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 12/35] autonuma: CPU follow memory algorithm Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 13:00 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 13:54 ` Rik van Riel
2012-05-29 13:10 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-06-22 17:36 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 13/35] autonuma: add page structure fields Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 13:16 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 13:56 ` Rik van Riel
2012-05-29 14:54 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-30 8:25 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-30 9:06 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-30 9:41 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2012-05-30 9:55 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-30 13:49 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-31 18:18 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-06-05 14:51 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-06-19 18:06 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 16:38 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 16:46 ` Rik van Riel
2012-05-29 16:56 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 18:35 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 17:38 ` Linus Torvalds
2012-05-29 18:09 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 20:42 ` Rik van Riel
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 14/35] autonuma: knuma_migrated per NUMA node queues Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 13:51 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-30 0:14 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-30 18:19 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 15/35] autonuma: init knuma_migrated queues Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 16/35] autonuma: autonuma_enter/exit Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 17/35] autonuma: call autonuma_setup_new_exec() Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 18/35] autonuma: alloc/free/init sched_autonuma Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-30 20:55 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 19/35] autonuma: alloc/free/init mm_autonuma Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 20/35] autonuma: avoid CFS select_task_rq_fair to return -1 Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 14:02 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 21/35] autonuma: teach CFS about autonuma affinity Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 16:05 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 22/35] autonuma: sched_set_autonuma_need_balance Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 16:12 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 17:33 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 17:43 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 18:24 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 22:21 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 23/35] autonuma: core Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 11:45 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2012-05-30 0:03 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 16:27 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 24/35] autonuma: follow_page check for pte_numa/pmd_numa Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 25/35] autonuma: default mempolicy follow AutoNUMA Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 26/35] autonuma: call autonuma_split_huge_page() Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 27/35] autonuma: make khugepaged pte_numa aware Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 28/35] autonuma: retain page last_nid information in khugepaged Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 29/35] autonuma: numa hinting page faults entry points Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 30/35] autonuma: reset autonuma page data when pages are freed Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 16:30 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 16:49 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 31/35] autonuma: initialize page structure fields Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 32/35] autonuma: link mm/autonuma.o and kernel/sched/numa.o Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 33/35] autonuma: add CONFIG_AUTONUMA and CONFIG_AUTONUMA_DEFAULT_ENABLED Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 34/35] autonuma: boost khugepaged scanning rate Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-25 17:02 ` [PATCH 35/35] autonuma: page_autonuma Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-29 16:44 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-29 17:14 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-26 17:28 ` Rik van Riel [this message]
2012-05-26 20:42 ` [PATCH 00/35] AutoNUMA alpha14 Linus Torvalds
2012-05-29 15:53 ` Christoph Lameter
2012-05-29 16:08 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-30 14:46 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-05-30 15:30 ` Ingo Molnar
2012-05-29 13:36 ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2012-05-29 15:43 ` Petr Holasek
2012-05-31 18:08 ` AutoNUMA15 Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-31 20:01 ` AutoNUMA15 Don Morris
2012-05-31 22:54 ` AutoNUMA15 Andrea Arcangeli
2012-06-01 0:04 ` AutoNUMA15 Andrea Arcangeli
2012-05-31 18:52 ` AutoNUMA15 Don Morris
2012-06-07 2:30 ` AutoNUMA15 Zhouping Liu
2012-06-21 7:29 ` AutoNUMA15 Alex Shi
2012-06-21 14:55 ` AutoNUMA15 Andrea Arcangeli
2012-06-26 7:52 ` AutoNUMA15 Alex Shi
2012-06-26 12:03 ` AutoNUMA15 Andrea Arcangeli
2012-07-12 2:36 ` AutoNUMA15 Alex Shi
2012-05-29 17:15 ` [PATCH 00/35] AutoNUMA alpha14 Andrea Arcangeli
2012-06-01 22:41 ` Mauricio Faria de Oliveira
2012-06-22 17:57 ` Andrea Arcangeli
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