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([2620:0:1000:8411:fe53:b285:ad53:95e0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s9-20020aa78d49000000b006d9b2d86bcasm233119pfe.46.2024.01.08.11.30.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Jan 2024 11:30:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9b46c48f-d7c4-4ed3-a644-fba90850eab8@acm.org> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 11:30:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Large block for I/O Content-Language: en-US To: Christoph Hellwig , Matthew Wilcox Cc: Hannes Reinecke , lsf-pc@lists.linuxfoundation.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, "linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org" References: <7970ad75-ca6a-34b9-43ea-c6f67fe6eae6@iogearbox.net> <4343d07b-b1b2-d43b-c201-a48e89145e5c@iogearbox.net> <03ebbc5f-2ff5-4f3c-8c5b-544413c55257@suse.de> <5c356222-fe9e-41b0-b7fe-218fbcde4573@acm.org> From: Bart Van Assche In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4D4A4A0030 X-Rspam-User: X-Rspamd-Server: rspam11 X-Stat-Signature: ws4fjqmee34rima8rhyci74semibjosf X-HE-Tag: 1704742214-807596 X-HE-Meta: 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 sjO5tzHQ 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 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 12/21/23 21:37, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 05:13:43AM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote: >> It clearly solves a problem (and the one I think it's solving is the >> size of the FTL map). But I can't see why we should stop working on it, >> just because not all drive manufacturers want to support it. > > I don't think it is drive vendors. It is is the SSD divisions which > all pretty much love it (for certain use cases) vs the UFS/eMMC > divisions which tends to often be fearful and less knowledgeable (to > say it nicely) no matter what vendor you're talking to. Hi Christoph, If there is a significant number of 4 KiB writes in a workload (e.g. filesystem metadata writes), and the logical block size is increased from 4 KiB to 16 KiB, this will increase write amplification no matter how the SSD storage controller has been designed, isn't it? Is there perhaps something that I'm misunderstanding? Thanks, Bart.