From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FC5C433EF for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 22:25:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D6961100 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 22:25:47 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 mail.kernel.org C2D6961100 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=mit.edu Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id 32B8B6B0071; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id 2B2BC6B0072; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:25:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id 179CC6B0073; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:25:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from forelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0171.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.171]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04BDA6B0071 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpin07.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by forelay04.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8FF139B26 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 22:25:46 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 78598498692.07.C0CE406 Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) by imf15.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EC77D000097 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 22:25:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cwcc.thunk.org (pool-72-74-133-215.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [72.74.133.215]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 18HMPY8h005995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:25:34 -0400 Received: by cwcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 3CFF515C0098; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 18:25:34 -0400 From: "Theodore Ts'o" To: Kent Overstreet Cc: Johannes Weiner , Dave Chinner , "Darrick J. Wong" , Matthew Wilcox , Linus Torvalds , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton , Christoph Hellwig , David Howells Subject: Re: Folio discussion recap Message-ID: References: <20210916025854.GE34899@magnolia> <20210917052440.GJ1756565@dread.disaster.area> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Authentication-Results: imf15.hostedemail.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (imf15.hostedemail.com: domain of tytso@mit.edu has no SPF policy when checking 18.9.28.11) smtp.mailfrom=tytso@mit.edu X-Stat-Signature: 6djumaw4eyzy6iycjbejf3on7krip1od X-Rspamd-Server: rspam02 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5EC77D000097 X-HE-Tag: 1631917546-127775 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000003, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 05:13:10PM -0400, Kent Overstreet wrote: > Also: it's become pretty clear to me that we have crappy > communications between MM developers and filesystem > developers. I think one of the challenges has been the lack of an LSF/MM since 2019. And it may be that having *some* kind of ad hoc technical discussion given that LSF/MM in 2021 is not happening might be a good thing. I'm sure if we asked nicely, we could use the LPC infrasutrcture to set up something, assuming we can find a mutually agreeable day or dates. > Internally both teams have solid communications - I know > in filesystem land we all talk to each other and are pretty good at > working colaboratively, and it sounds like the MM team also has good > internal communications. But we seem to have some problems with > tackling issues that cross over between FS and MM land, or awkwardly > sit between them. That's a bit of a over-generalization; it seems like we've uncovered that some of the disagreemnts are between different parts of the MM community over the suitability of folios for anonymous pages. And it's interesting, because I don't really consider Willy to be one of "the FS folks" --- and he has been quite diligent to reaching out to a number of folks in the FS community about our needs, and it's clear that this has been really, really helpful. There's no question that we've had for many years some difficulties in the code paths that sit between FS and MM, and I'd claim that it's not just because of communications, but the relative lack of effort that was focused in that area. The fact that Willy has spent the last 9 months working on FS / MM interactions has been really great, and I hope it continues. That being said, it sounds like there are issues internal to the MM devs that still need to be ironed out, and at the risk of throwing the anon-THP folks under the bus, if we can land at least some portion of the folio commits, it seems like that would be a step in the right direction. Cheers, - Ted