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From: Sebastian Andrzej Siewior <bigeasy@linutronix.de>
To: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Marcelo Tosatti <mtosatti@redhat.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@techsingularity.net>,
	Nicolas Saenz Julienne <nsaenzju@redhat.com>,
	Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Daniel Bristot de Oliveira <bristot@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [patch v5] mm: lru_cache_disable: replace work queue synchronization with synchronize_rcu
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 09:35:49 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YisJ5SLBijAbcwHD@linutronix.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20220310182326.5b375da6b86e95f7e71acd90@linux-foundation.org>

+ sched division

On 2022-03-10 18:23:26 [-0800], Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 10:22:12 -0300 Marcelo Tosatti <mtosatti@redhat.com> wrote:
> > On systems that run FIFO:1 applications that busy loop,
> > any SCHED_OTHER task that attempts to execute
> > on such a CPU (such as work threads) will not
> > be scheduled, which leads to system hangs.
> 
> Permitting a realtime thread to hang the entire system warrants a
> -stable backport, I think.  That's just rude.

I'm not sure if someone is not willingly breaking the system. Based on
my experience, a thread with an elevated priority (that FIFO, RR or DL)
should not hog the CPU. A normal user (!root && !CAP_SYS_NICE) can't
increase the priority of the task.
To avoid a system hangup there is sched_rt_runtime_us which ensures that
all RT threads are throttled once the RT class exceed a certain amount
of runtime. This has been relaxed a little on systems with more CPUs so
that the RT runtime can be shared but this sharing (RT_RUNTIME_SHARE)
has been disabled by default a while ago. That safe switch
(sched_rt_runtime_us) can be disabled and is usually disabled on RT
system since the RT tasks usually run longer especially in corner cases.

People often isolate CPUs and have busy-loop tasks running with
SCHED_OTHER given that there is nothing else going on there will be no
preemption. In this case, the worker would preempt the task.
In this scenario I _can_ understand that one wants to avoid that
preemption and try things differently like this patch suggests. We can
even offload RCU thread from isolated CPUs.
But I wouldn't say this requires a backport because there is way for a
RT thread, that claims 100% of the CPU, to break the system.

Sebastian


  reply	other threads:[~2022-03-11  8:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-02-22 16:01 [patch v2] mm: lru_cache_disable: replace work queue synchronization with synchronize_rcu Marcelo Tosatti
2022-02-22 16:07 ` [patch v3] " Marcelo Tosatti
2022-02-22 16:25   ` Nicolas Saenz Julienne
2022-03-04  1:03   ` Andrew Morton
2022-03-04  1:49     ` Paul E. McKenney
2022-03-04 15:08       ` Marcelo Tosatti
2022-03-04 16:02         ` Paul E. McKenney
2022-03-04 15:11     ` Marcelo Tosatti
2022-03-04 16:29   ` [patch v4] " Marcelo Tosatti
2022-03-05  0:35     ` Andrew Morton
2022-03-07 18:52       ` Marcelo Tosatti
2022-03-10 13:22       ` [patch v5] " Marcelo Tosatti
2022-03-11  2:23         ` Andrew Morton
2022-03-11  8:35           ` Sebastian Andrzej Siewior [this message]
2022-03-12  0:40             ` Andrew Morton
2022-03-12 20:39             ` Marcelo Tosatti
2022-03-13  9:23               ` Hillf Danton
2022-03-31 13:52         ` Borislav Petkov
2022-04-28 18:00           ` Marcelo Tosatti
2022-05-28 21:18             ` Andrew Morton
2022-05-28 22:54               ` Michael Larabel
2022-05-29  0:48                 ` Michael Larabel
2022-06-19 12:14                   ` Thorsten Leemhuis
2022-06-22  0:15                     ` Andrew Morton
2022-03-05  4:33     ` [patch v4] " Paul E. McKenney
2022-03-08 17:41     ` Minchan Kim

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