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Howlett" , Vlastimil Babka , Mike Rapoport , Suren Baghdasaryan , Michal Hocko , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Hui Zhu Subject: Re: [PATCH v3] mm/memory: use pmdp_get_lockless() for the pmd read in do_fault_around() Message-ID: References: <20261103014749.96764-1-hui.zhu@linux.dev> <61f8a583-5ea5-4fcc-bf30-ea9cafe94d65@kernel.org> X-Archived-By: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <61f8a583-5ea5-4fcc-bf30-ea9cafe94d65@kernel.org> X-Rspamd-Server: rspam04 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6604E4000E X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, INCLUDES_CR_TRAILER,INCLUDES_PATCH,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 X-Stat-Signature: 3kf5dfsye3drc1iffddt6pr7p8gpe44o X-Rspam-User: X-HE-Tag: 1793730295-480095 X-HE-Meta: U2FsdGVkX18ko3yk/z/oWAFEp0OjaIiokhSXyrhRBTC2bmLKRc8X7mYSh6yt+TZD4Q1LtfbAfTqKSZBqEuILOTdRkgbDYIcbycl39YDrbPw8qqs7HPgdFFG32I7zcdOLIp+AY1ST4uNdFyhNsqWIP6kXdAikamCb/dSErv13Lm+Jc49fOXOMpbr9n7XBMoHxxd7wHZiEfZjbSca9Yr4yz41UOpe7ksTyovnlxM26uqPDRNy0kkjBbWsGFFSf/62Pqgq/FQYzV8p5vRXroOuA/WuU2OJFeirNvuqUxuRIXmecp3atn3Ie8cdtncBowO2l11phW7Cx9rCBu5uvgSURrKPXhWk0BfcbXcHrKfPPoAl2m5rzc/5kZZb02zTRUV2k2SJx/epUg5Wx7WivAPGhyWMiuj5j76kA40fd2I5pHBY8PRvTPAo5pKFeg9eaIrITHjBqJ4D9W3TvAzv6rdkVSKbd7tvxyykl5KXn0hCBDcas5SLDArTHEnE+hi9YGsa/Y59UZ7uSuYYC4CjrwUPb1+sL0nRlvSahn5rKPNB5Hcgt7BS2r4CSF7r7RAfZVZtA6e2QuhjFUS8htv/Xohy/p0Gh6kWLHktrbdG8ihIqDw2RNHC/324z6ONlVRizHJDYsPYZaJl9bByOxV2uXJD++wKpbFzjTBSE8NCoNwlgfvx9C7HascvErQFBCJIFZrrm+7Eotdq3usXBoz0MHWwU1ivBLDpYhAbK7qIU+UK8nuThWZdjpbwW/pyrfhQQxciEv83BR190jsnzp17e6MSD13AiBV+rSbGZxHerlyp5NHhbwXb2YrhBgnhOs4sEJVEWFn9ZNJ5w75do9U+yrXytWl+4AZVjGHL6Wm5U1FcwqdR7YGetv7aoFgVbu/4U8I01PC0lffsN0Y8rNUjlnBTTzm76ikWFga12EE78ySkTaqEr8hvLeBbd6m/dukqAPw7+vPQsjK0VTLqgGRfw9q6 3yyyK6oN tYPJ7ysWAwyghoBKYaT/yuVn7pDHdfy7R2AmKhqfejPYiSz80RhaRqjm78IfY4o1nrOJqjpkbiVX+KBSEh1S0aeWa8SCFrkXeX5L0CenmZn6rSqzuLJYEsvht3FJtCaUd/pNsmbuqeT6tWqUZT9cSz/NFkQHbKiLgMnIAG9/E7FNQx0lh8TeUYlCKqNNp7AePsiuDcxhmARBPAx/GJVKLylYjd/sR6Sy3HzIPC6xf/G/HzeBuNrmokgCn9Xx8l69lZSWbDge9Yywk41X7dyoBX2R+9/tppUWBOKAOJjGtywMXkaHQJmwcM/+m3dMpIajxCYrH Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: List-Subscribe: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-26) on aws-us-west-2-korg-listserv-alma10-1 On Tue, Nov 03, 2026 at 05:15:27PM +0100, David Hildenbrand (Arm) wrote: > > >> +++ b/mm/memory.c > >> @@ -6017,7 +6017,8 @@ static vm_fault_t do_fault_around(struct vm_fault *vmf) > >> to_pte = min3(from_pte + nr_pages, (pgoff_t)PTRS_PER_PTE, > >> pte_off + vma_pages(vmf->vma) - vma_off) - 1; > >> > >> - if (pmd_none(*vmf->pmd)) { > > > > This pattern is definitely bad I think, we have it in many other places so > > should probably convert those to pmdp_get() at least? > > Usama is working on this as part of separating HW and SW PMDs (he only sent out > the PTE part so far). > > > > >> + /* pmd_install() rechecks pmd_none() under the pmd lock. */ > >> + if (pmd_none(pmdp_get_lockless(vmf->pmd))) { > > > > It definitely seems right to use at least pmdp_get() here, but I wonder > > about the need for pmdp_get_lockless() here. > > Whenever we're not holding the page table lock we should be using > pmdp_get_lockless(). > > Even if they are semantically equivalent for most cases, it serves as a good > reminder that there are no guarantees. > > And that you have to look again under PT lock. > > > > > pmd_none() only checks the lower word, so a torn 64-bit word on 32-bit > > (i.e. the PAE style cases we are worried about) makes no difference: > > > > From x86 pmd_none(): > > > > /* Only check low word on 32-bit platforms, since it might be > > out of sync with upper half. */ > > > > And anyway I guess there is no valid PMD in such systems that would have > > the lower word cleared and upper word not cleared. > > > > I don't understand the discussion really. > > No PT lock -> use the lockless variant. > > Until we can remove the lockless variant. > > Are we consistent with that? Likely not. > > But that's all independent of this patch here. It turns out all of this is a complicated mess, I think I've nerd-sniped myself into sending a series at some point about this... It turns out we're as wildly inconsistent on pmdp_get_lockless() as we are on pmdp_get(), so TL;DR my main concern is moot so: Acked-by: Lorenzo Stoakes (ARM) But for the non-TL;DR... (optional reading, will probably send something): * Agreed that the semantics matter - and the 'use pXXp_get_lockless() if no locks, otherwise pXXp_get()' is preferable. * But it turns out it's all a giant mess (of course)... for CONFIG_GUP_GET_PXX_LOW_HIGH arches you really actually need to also do: pmdp_get_lockless_start(); pmd = pmdp_get_lockless(...); pmdp_get_lockless_end(); And that's because, as Hugh points out in commit 146b42e07494 ("mm/pgtable: add PAE safety to __pte_offset_map()")), you need IRQs disabled for these arches for it to be safe. The explanation is quite good: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=146b42e07494e45f7c7bcf2cbf7afd1424afd78e And then of course there's also pmdp_get_lockless_sync() used by THP collapse which is some kind of 'true' lockless usage that needs to synchronise with TLB invalidation against GUP-fast and ugh. * So I think what matters is whether you actually NEED the value un-torn or whether it's an optimistic check that you can live with (rechecked under lock as needed). * So I wonder if we shouldn't just have e.g. pmdp_get_lockless_optimistic() or something like that which is just a pmdp_get() in all cases with correct kdoc description etc. * Then we can convert ALL lockless users to using a lockless form without having to do the IRQ stuff. Including a ton of the existing lockless users. * I am not sure why I did this in bullets. :) -- Cheers, Lorenzo