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urezki@gmail.com, vbabka@kernel.org, willdeacon@google.com, x86@kernel.org, xin@zytor.com References: Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 00/13] Dynamic Kernel Stacks Content-Language: en-GB From: Andrew Cooper Autocrypt: addr=andrew.cooper3@citrix.com; keydata= xsFNBFLhNn8BEADVhE+Hb8i0GV6mihnnr/uiQQdPF8kUoFzCOPXkf7jQ5sLYeJa0cQi6Penp VtiFYznTairnVsN5J+ujSTIb+OlMSJUWV4opS7WVNnxHbFTPYZVQ3erv7NKc2iVizCRZ2Kxn srM1oPXWRic8BIAdYOKOloF2300SL/bIpeD+x7h3w9B/qez7nOin5NzkxgFoaUeIal12pXSR Q354FKFoy6Vh96gc4VRqte3jw8mPuJQpfws+Pb+swvSf/i1q1+1I4jsRQQh2m6OTADHIqg2E ofTYAEh7R5HfPx0EXoEDMdRjOeKn8+vvkAwhviWXTHlG3R1QkbE5M/oywnZ83udJmi+lxjJ5 YhQ5IzomvJ16H0Bq+TLyVLO/VRksp1VR9HxCzItLNCS8PdpYYz5TC204ViycobYU65WMpzWe LFAGn8jSS25XIpqv0Y9k87dLbctKKA14Ifw2kq5OIVu2FuX+3i446JOa2vpCI9GcjCzi3oHV e00bzYiHMIl0FICrNJU0Kjho8pdo0m2uxkn6SYEpogAy9pnatUlO+erL4LqFUO7GXSdBRbw5 gNt25XTLdSFuZtMxkY3tq8MFss5QnjhehCVPEpE6y9ZjI4XB8ad1G4oBHVGK5LMsvg22PfMJ ISWFSHoF/B5+lHkCKWkFxZ0gZn33ju5n6/FOdEx4B8cMJt+cWwARAQABzSlBbmRyZXcgQ29v 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 9IYESbHK 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only supporting this > for FRED (which is on our doorstep). That said, understanding the > issues you foresee with the IST approach For IST, read https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hWejnyDkjRRAW-JEsRjA5c9CKLOPc6VKJQsuvODlQEI/edit?usp=sharing This was written prior to the first public drafts of FRED and SEE specs, and FRED evolved quite a lot from the first draft to where we are today. > would still be valuable, as > it might save us internal trouble should we choose to carry it > temporarily to bridge the gap with FRED. A lot has been said about the invasiveness and tradeoffs.  I don't wish to dwell on or rehash that. There is one critical point which has not been made as far as I can tell: In x86, if delivering an interrupt (NMI or INTR) causes an exception (any exception, not just pagefault), the original interrupt is lost. If you are aware of this, then in principle you can look at the LAPIC state to figure out when an INTR was missed.  However there is no ability at all to figure out when an NMI was missed.  Worse, it is both vendor and IDT-vs-FRED specific as to whether NMIs are blocked following a missed NMI, and that too is state you cannot recover. If you wish to make dynamic stacks works, then you *must* find a non-fault based approach on x86. ~Andrew