Re: obscure microsd detection issue between U-Boot and kernel

[Christian Loehle <christian.loehle@arm.com>]

On 6/20/24 17:48, Tim Harvey wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 1:14 AM Michael Walle <michael@walle.cc> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue Jun 4, 2024 at 9:47 AM CEST, Christian Loehle wrote:
>>> On 6/3/24 22:28, Tim Harvey wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 1:18 AM Christian Loehle
>>>> <christian.loehle@arm.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/31/24 21:47, Tim Harvey wrote:
>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm seeing an issue on an imx8mm board (imx8mm-venice-gw73xx) where
>>>>>> for a specific set of microsd cards if I have accessed the microsd in
>>>>>> U-Boot with UHS/1.8V the kernel will not recognize that microsd when
>>>>>> scanning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The issue does not occur with all microsd cards but seems to appear
>>>>>> with a large sample size of a specific card/model (Kingston SDC32 32GB
>>>>>> SDR104 card). I do not see a signal integrity issue on the scope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Instrumenting the kernel the issue is that the host reports a CRC
>>>>>> error as soon as the first mmc_send_if_cond call which occurs in
>>>>>> mmc_rescan_try_freq.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can avoid the issue by either not accessing the microsd in U-Boot or
>>>>>> by disabling UHS/1.8V mode in U-Boot therefore what I think is
>>>>>> happening is that U-Boot leaves the card in UHS/1.8V signalling mode
>>>>>> and when the kernel scans it sets the voltage back to 3.3V
>>>>>> standard/default and default timings then issues its clock cycles to
>>>>>> 'reset' the card and the card does not recognize the reset. I'm
>>>>>> wondering if this is because the reset is done via clock cycles after
>>>>>> the kernel has set the I/O voltage back to 3.3V when perhaps the card
>>>>>> is still in 1.8V mode (although I don't see how that would cause an
>>>>>> issue)?
>>>>>
>>>>> It will cause an issue for many cards and might break some cards.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there some sort of MMC 'reset' I can/should do in U-Boot before
>>>>>> booting the kernel? Has anyone encountered anything like this before?
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no 'switching back' to 3.3V signalling from UHS 1.8V.
>>>>> The only way this can be done is therefore a full power-off.
>>>>> Is that done correctly for your system?
>>>>> AFAIR spec dictates 500ms of <0.5V on VCC. Note that  driving CLK/signal
>>>>> lines can also sustain the card somewhat, as leakage is only limited
>>>>> within operating voltage.
>>>>
>>>> Hi Christian,
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying the only way to properly reset from 1.8V is to have a
>>>> VDD supply on the microSD card that can be turned off before booting
>>>> to Linux? We have never had that before and never encountered
>>>> something like this.
>>>
>>> Yes, the only safe way to use UHS-I really anyway.
>>
>> I can second that. And also keep in mind that the actual supply
>> voltage must be below that threshold. Thus, the power-off time also
>> depends on the capacitance on that supply line after the power load
>> switch. There are switches with dedicated output discharge circuits
>> built-in.
>>
>> That being said, from my experience there are cards which will work
>> when switching back from 1V8 to 3V3 signalling and some don't. I
>> haven't digged deeper into that topic, though.
>>
>> -michael
>>
>>> You could disable UHS for u-boot but that still leaves (potentially)
>>> problematic warm-reboots of the board.
>>> Having a (software-controlled) switchable regulator on SD VCC is pretty
>>> common for this reason and you should be able to find it in most dts
>>> for host controllers with sd-uhs-* property.
>>> I'm afraid that the relevant spec section isn't available in the
>>> simplified version.
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Christian
>>
> 
> Thanks for both of your responses here!
> 
> I have a situation where I can re-create a problem switching from 1.8V
> back to 3.3V with a specific card on a board that has ESD protection
> between the IMX8MM host and the microSD connector (Semtech
> ECLAMP2410P.TCT [1]) but works just fine on a previous revision of
> that same PCB that does not have the ESD protection added. Boards with
> proper ESD protection are the first time I've seen this issue occur.
> Does this make sense at all?

I have some hypothesis but that isn't even worth sharing, see below.

> 
> I believe that the MMC device is 'reset' via a series of CLK cycles
> with CMD/DAT non-asserted so I'm having a difficult time understanding
> how this wouldn't work if the host has been reset to 3.3V.

My answer is simple but not very satisfying:
It is out of spec.
After the CMD11 UHS voltage switch anything on CMD, DAT and CLK you
drive from the host at 3.3V without a proper powercycle is out of spec,
the card's behavior isn't covered by the SD spec and the card isn't to
blame.

If you want a really detailed answer try asking your SD card vendor,
my guess would be their answer is "the host is out of spec".

Kind Regards,
Christian