Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Dewey McDonnell]

Where can I find detail instructions to Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu 
on Linux Mint (Debian)?

Best regards,
Dewey McDonnell
Blue Ridge POS, LLC
PO Box 227
Orange, VA 22960-0130
540 672-1212
www.posLinker.com

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Frantisek Hanzlik]

Dewey McDonnell wrote:
> Where can I find detail instructions to Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on
> Linux Mint (Debian)?
> 
> Best regards,
> Dewey McDonnell
> Blue Ridge POS, LLC
> PO Box 227
> Orange, VA 22960-0130
> 540 672-1212
> www.posLinker.com

IMO almost all (or completely all) users in this list uses DOSEMU
with FreeDOS (with benefits as free/open SW, still active evolved,
well bonded with DOSEMU /Bart Oldeman is significant FreeDOS kernel
developer/, wide free DOS utils support etc.).

Thus, althougt with DOSEMU can be used perhaps any DOS, I think
there isn't 'official' detailed instructions for DR-DOS - all docs
is in man pages and texts from /doc/ DOSEMU directory.

Maybe, when there in list will not be any DR-DOS+DOSEMU user, You
can more detailed describe what You exactly need, and someone can
help how did it with FreeDOS.

Regards, Franta Hanzlik

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Stas Sergeev]

15.08.2013 12:06, Frantisek Hanzlik пишет:
> IMO almost all (or completely all) users in this list uses DOSEMU
> with FreeDOS (with benefits as free/open SW, still active evolved,
> well bonded with DOSEMU /Bart Oldeman is significant FreeDOS kernel
> developer/, wide free DOS utils support etc.).
>
> Thus, althougt with DOSEMU can be used perhaps any DOS, I think
> there isn't 'official' detailed instructions for DR-DOS - all docs
> is in man pages and texts from /doc/ DOSEMU directory.
>
> Maybe, when there in list will not be any DR-DOS+DOSEMU user, You
> can more detailed describe what You exactly need, and someone can
> help how did it with FreeDOS.
Please note that FreeDOS has a huge disadvantages.
- Cannot be built by any GPLed compiler, which is why, AFAIK,
dosemu is still in debian contrib. It is not "free" by the debian
standards.
- Is not compatible with Win3.1, while dosemu is declared to
be compatible with it.
So FreeDOS should be suggested with care.

I simply have a DOS partition dated ~1993, when FreeDOS
didn't even exist, and I use dosemu to boot from that.
So the FreeDOS users should correct me if some of the
points above are no longer valid.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-msdos" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Stas Sergeev]

15.08.2013 13:51, Stuart Axon пишет:
> Pretty sure I've used DosEMU with DrDOS, a long time ago (from an
> existing partition).    The DrDOS task manager doesn't work,
Do you know why?
Does it use to enter protected mode by some means
other than DPMI?
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-msdos" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Frantisek Hanzlik]

Stas Sergeev wrote:
> 15.08.2013 12:06, Frantisek Hanzlik пишет:
>> IMO almost all (or completely all) users in this list uses DOSEMU
>> with FreeDOS (with benefits as free/open SW, still active evolved,
>> well bonded with DOSEMU /Bart Oldeman is significant FreeDOS kernel
>> developer/, wide free DOS utils support etc.).
>>
>> Thus, althougt with DOSEMU can be used perhaps any DOS, I think
>> there isn't 'official' detailed instructions for DR-DOS - all docs
>> is in man pages and texts from /doc/ DOSEMU directory.
>>
>> Maybe, when there in list will not be any DR-DOS+DOSEMU user, You
>> can more detailed describe what You exactly need, and someone can
>> help how did it with FreeDOS.
> Please note that FreeDOS has a huge disadvantages.
> - Cannot be built by any GPLed compiler, which is why, AFAIK,
> dosemu is still in debian contrib. It is not "free" by the debian
> standards.
> - Is not compatible with Win3.1, while dosemu is declared to
> be compatible with it.
> So FreeDOS should be suggested with care.
> 
> I simply have a DOS partition dated ~1993, when FreeDOS
> didn't even exist, and I use dosemu to boot from that.
> So the FreeDOS users should correct me if some of the
> points above are no longer valid.

Hello Stas,
I'm not developer nor licensing expert, thus sorry for maybe outsider
and inaccurate thinking, but:
- regarding to building FreeDOS with GPLed compiler and things that
DOSEMU/FreeDOS isn't in certain Linux distros: as I understand this,
distro maintainers not include it in distro cores because FreeDOS
cannot be compiled with _open_source_ compiler (IMO it doesn't need
to be GPLed one). Thus, isn't their opinion from pre-openwatcom era
and now nothing prevent to include DOSEMU/FreeDOS into Linux
distributions? Of course, I personally shall be happy to see DOSEMU
in Linux distributions too.

- FreeDOS compatibility with win3.1 maybe isn't too critical and may
be abandoned (my opinion; at first I think win3.x is some transient
stage, neither DOS, nor windows (in Czech we call it 'kočkopes' which
is some as 'catdog' - neither cat, nor dog). And second, I not know
when someone use win3.x - I know several peoples which uses DOS
programs, but I don't know anybody who use win3.x (in fact, two years
ago only one man which I have known migrate from Win 98 to newer OS))

Franta Hanzlik

Luční 502           Linux/Unix/LAN/Internet       Tel: +420-377946353
33209 Štěnovice      e-mail:it@hanzlici.cz        Fax: +420-377946353
Czech Republic        http://hanzlici.cz/         GSM: +420-604117319
Tento mail neobsahuje viry, byl odeslán z operačního systému Linux

--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-msdos" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Stas Sergeev]

15.08.2013 14:27, Frantisek Hanzlik пишет:
> - regarding to building FreeDOS with GPLed compiler and things that
> DOSEMU/FreeDOS isn't in certain Linux distros: as I understand this,
> distro maintainers not include it in distro cores because FreeDOS
> cannot be compiled with _open_source_ compiler (IMO it doesn't need
> to be GPLed one). Thus, isn't their opinion from pre-openwatcom era
> and now nothing prevent to include DOSEMU/FreeDOS into Linux
> distributions?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybase_Open_Watcom_Public_License

>  Of course, I personally shall be happy to see DOSEMU
> in Linux distributions too.
Someone have to write a compiler for for FreeDOS and release
it under GPL. :)

> - FreeDOS compatibility with win3.1 maybe isn't too critical and may
> be abandoned (my opinion; at first I think win3.x is some transient
> stage, neither DOS, nor windows (in Czech we call it 'kočkopes' which
> is some as 'catdog' - neither cat, nor dog). And second, I not know
> when someone use win3.x - I know several peoples which uses DOS
> programs, but I don't know anybody who use win3.x (in fact, two years
This is true in real world, but in the virtual world of dosemu, win31
is the only possibility to browse the internet with netscape navigator
gold. :) Not a very big deal, sure, but still it is a bit of a problem
by itself that FreeDOS, being recommended to use with dosemu,
shrinks its functionality compared to other DOSes. It should enrich
the functionality, not shrink.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-msdos" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Bart Oldeman]

Hi,

actually last time I checked Windows 3.1 works in FreeDOS under
DOSEMU. The special hooks it needs are mostly for file system access
but this is irrelevant with the MFS "networked file system". Running
win3.1 directly from a FAT filesystem has issues as in real mode DOS.

The problem with the Open Watcom compiler for FreeDOS is not that is
not GPL, but that Open Watcom is "Open Source" (OSI) but not "Free
Software" (FSF). For Debian, it does not pass the "Debian Free
Software Guidelines" (DFSG).
If it were BSD licensed or Apache or anything else DFSG-blessed (which
is even stricter than FSF-blessed) there would not be an issue.

Bart

P.S. I'm sorry about the slowness regarding the COPYING.DOSEMU
language. it's just a hairy issue I don't want to rush (with limited
time already).

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Stas Sergeev]

15.08.2013 17:17, Bart Oldeman пишет:
> actually last time I checked Windows 3.1 works in FreeDOS under
Is it in standard or enhanced mode?
Does 3.11 works too?
That's a good news.

> The problem with the Open Watcom compiler for FreeDOS is not that is
> not GPL,
I wasn't saying the problem is that OpenWatcom is GPL,
just that the GPL compiler is missing, which otherwise would
help. Anyway, If the OpenWatcom license is incompatible with
GPL, then it may be the problem for the FreeDOS itself I guess.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-msdos" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Frantisek Hanzlik]

Stas Sergeev wrote:
> 15.08.2013 14:27, Frantisek Hanzlik пишет:
>> - regarding to building FreeDOS with GPLed compiler and things that
>> DOSEMU/FreeDOS isn't in certain Linux distros: as I understand this,
>> distro maintainers not include it in distro cores because FreeDOS
>> cannot be compiled with _open_source_ compiler (IMO it doesn't need
>> to be GPLed one). Thus, isn't their opinion from pre-openwatcom era
>> and now nothing prevent to include DOSEMU/FreeDOS into Linux
>> distributions?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybase_Open_Watcom_Public_License

I tried understand this and referenced links, but right interpretation
is perhaps over my english skills. Only a few things:
- it seems as OW is released under "Sybase Open Watcom Public License
version 1.0" sometimes from 2002, and according to You mentioned wiki
page, there is a draft of version 2.0 of the Licence from 2004.
Then, will not be fine when this v2.0 license will satisfy distributions
leaders?
As I'm reading on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing
so e.g. several Apple Public Source License 1.0/1.1/1.2 aren't conforming
with distro requirements, but Apple Public Source License 2.0 is fine.
World evolves, sometimes in right direction, hope OW will have better
license soon.

- second things, I so so understand as due to licensing problem (see
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=376431
http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-legal@lists.debian.org/msg34680.html
referenced from above mentioned wikipedia page) OW isn't included in
certain Linux Distros. But FreeDOS case is IMO something other, there
is FreeDOS GPL code now compiled under OW - which has not suitable
license, but still it is open source piece of SW.

For me, it seems as e.g. restrictions to use firmware under Fedora:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:Main#Binary_Firmware
are more benevolent than use FreeDOS with DOSEMU (maybe in this case
is possible imagine FreeDOS as some sort of 'firmware', as it isn't
directly executable under Linux, yes?)

>>  Of course, I personally shall be happy to see DOSEMU
>> in Linux distributions too.
> Someone have to write a compiler for for FreeDOS and release
> it under GPL. :)

Yeah, it would be super, but we need be realistic...
IMO there's no need to be all strictly GPL (v2, v2+, v3+, LGPL+/- :),
maybe lot of other OSI licenses accepted by FSF would be fine too.

>> - FreeDOS compatibility with win3.1 maybe isn't too critical and may
>> be abandoned (my opinion; at first I think win3.x is some transient
>> stage, neither DOS, nor windows (in Czech we call it 'kočkopes' which
>> is some as 'catdog' - neither cat, nor dog). And second, I not know
>> when someone use win3.x - I know several peoples which uses DOS
>> programs, but I don't know anybody who use win3.x (in fact, two years
> This is true in real world, but in the virtual world of dosemu, win31
> is the only possibility to browse the internet with netscape navigator
> gold. :)

Yes, I just now, out from curiosity, insert some my old CD from 1998 and
found 16-bit Netscape Navigator gold (v3.04) and standard (3.04 and 4.04)
there. Where those times are... Nostalgia... But when I 15 years was not
using them, most likely I will get along without them in the future too ;)

> Not a very big deal, sure, but still it is a bit of a problem
> by itself that FreeDOS, being recommended to use with dosemu,
> shrinks its functionality compared to other DOSes. It should enrich
> the functionality, not shrink.

IMO those are functionalities related to 32-bit CPUs leverage, as work
with memory, task switching etc. - and these features even are not
fully compatible across all DOS distributions. FreeDOS perhaps extend
DOS functionality in other areas too. Regards task switching - for me
is simpler run two DOSEMU instances (with treatment of different
.dosemurc/imagedir paths) than solve multitasking in DOS (my DOS
programs not interfere one with another, of course)

--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-msdos" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Stas Sergeev]

15.08.2013 18:59, Frantisek Hanzlik пишет:
> Stas Sergeev wrote:
>> 15.08.2013 14:27, Frantisek Hanzlik пишет:
>>> - regarding to building FreeDOS with GPLed compiler and things that
>>> DOSEMU/FreeDOS isn't in certain Linux distros: as I understand this,
>>> distro maintainers not include it in distro cores because FreeDOS
>>> cannot be compiled with _open_source_ compiler (IMO it doesn't need
>>> to be GPLed one). Thus, isn't their opinion from pre-openwatcom era
>>> and now nothing prevent to include DOSEMU/FreeDOS into Linux
>>> distributions?
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybase_Open_Watcom_Public_License
> I tried understand this and referenced links, but right interpretation
> is perhaps over my english skills. Only a few things:
> - it seems as OW is released under "Sybase Open Watcom Public License
> version 1.0" sometimes from 2002, and according to You mentioned wiki
> page, there is a draft of version 2.0 of the Licence from 2004.
> Then, will not be fine when this v2.0 license will satisfy distributions
> leaders?
Maybe. But please note that 9 years passed since 2004, and there
was no release, just the draft. Even if they eventually make a release,
just how many time it will take to re-license OW under that license?
I wouldn't hold a breathe.

> World evolves, sometimes in right direction, hope OW will have better
> license soon.
Soon?

> For me, it seems as e.g. restrictions to use firmware under Fedora:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:Main#Binary_Firmware
> are more benevolent than use FreeDOS with DOSEMU (maybe in this case
> is possible imagine FreeDOS as some sort of 'firmware', as it isn't
> directly executable under Linux, yes?)
It is not impossible to include freedos in debian contrib, as it is GPL.
But it will have to stay in contrib until it can be compiled under debian.
It is actually already there AFAIK, but I know too little about debian.
So, while not completely impossible, freedos will always be a second-class
citizen in the distros. While this is the case, people can decide to
install only dosemu and boot their own DOS - this is what I do anyway.
There was a project started, freedos-32, that was meant to solve
that problem, but I don't think it progresses fast enough.

>>>  Of course, I personally shall be happy to see DOSEMU
>>> in Linux distributions too.
>> Someone have to write a compiler for for FreeDOS and release
>> it under GPL. :)
> Yeah, it would be super, but we need be realistic...
> IMO there's no need to be all strictly GPL (v2, v2+, v3+, LGPL+/- :),
> maybe lot of other OSI licenses accepted by FSF would be fine too.
OK but that won't help getting such a compiler.
There is none under GPL and none under any other fsf-approved
license.
Some googling reveals that there actually are few, but freedos
have to be "ported" for them...

> Yes, I just now, out from curiosity, insert some my old CD from 1998 and
> found 16-bit Netscape Navigator gold (v3.04) and standard (3.04 and 4.04)
> there. Where those times are... Nostalgia... But when I 15 years was not
> using them, most likely I will get along without them in the future too ;)
You can also run ms-word 2 or 6. :-!
But maybe you can also run this all under Wine...

>> Not a very big deal, sure, but still it is a bit of a problem
>> by itself that FreeDOS, being recommended to use with dosemu,
>> shrinks its functionality compared to other DOSes. It should enrich
>> the functionality, not shrink.
> IMO those are functionalities related to 32-bit CPUs leverage, as work
> with memory, task switching etc. - and these features even are not
> fully compatible across all DOS distributions. FreeDOS perhaps extend
> DOS functionality in other areas too. Regards task switching - for me
Task switching presumably doesn't work under DrDOS, not freedos.
drdos has some taskmgr that seems to use their extensions to
emm386.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-msdos" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Install DR-DOS 7.0 into dosemu on Linux Mint (Debian)

[Stas Sergeev]

15.08.2013 18:59, Frantisek Hanzlik пишет:
>>>   Of course, I personally shall be happy to see DOSEMU
>>> in Linux distributions too.
>> Someone have to write a compiler for for FreeDOS and release
>> it under GPL. :)
> Yeah, it would be super, but we need be realistic...
It seems it is not entirely unrealistic, see this for instance:
http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/CompileFarm#Currently_Running
Not sure about the status of that project though...

Another possibility may be to add the support for far
pointers to bcc:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.x8086/2108

And yet another possibility is to write something on top
of llvm...

Another possibility might be to re-target sdcc, as mentioned
here:
http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-8086/msg00382.html
Actually I was even contributing to sdcc 10 years ago,
but now it seems to have grown by the order of magnitude,
so I don't know if it is still as simple as it was.

All of these projects are difficult enough, but are quite possible
for anyone motivated.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-msdos" in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html