DoC newbie

DoC newbie

[lanas]

Hello,

  I have a few questions about a Disk-On-Chip 2000 and its possibilities
ans integration.

  Is it possible to boot from such a device ?

  What I did up to now is to get the device recognized as /dev/ntfla. 
So I did a fdisk on this, created a bootable partition, and formatted it
ext2.  Ans then I mount it and I can copy files to it.  I tried to run a
basic and recent lilo with device being /dev/ntfla bit lilo got lost
somewhere.  Anyhow I understand that using jffs2 would be a much better
choice to leverage the wear on the chip.  Where can i find complete and
recent instructions for using the jffs2 with kernel 2.4.20, as well as
the utilities needed such as mkjffs2 (or some such) ?

  Ah, did I damaged anything in the DoC by formatting it using ext2 ? 
Do I simply have to reformat it using the jffs2 formatting utility (much
in the same way as mke2fs) ?

  Any hint and comments appreciated,

Cheers,

Al

Re: DoC newbie

[Ilguiz Latypov]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2003 at 09:35:52PM +0100, lanas wrote:
>   What I did up to now is to get the device recognized as /dev/ntfla. 

LILO would need disk I/O int 0x13 emulation.  Such layer is offered by
M-Sys.  I don't know if the source code for it is open.

There is a nice description of dwmw2's open source NFTL patch to GRUB
and further enhancements at

  http://www.lakeshoremicro.com/diskonchip-grub-howto.html

I saw messages on JFFS2 on NAND driver development in the MTD mailing
list archives.

-- 
Ilguiz

Re: DoC newbie

[Jasmine Strong]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Ilguiz Latypov wrote:

> LILO would need disk I/O int 0x13 emulation.  Such layer is offered by
> M-Sys.  I don't know if the source code for it is open.

It isn't.  Furthermore, this list isn't the right place for discussing it,
especially now that good free (and indeed Free) alternatives exist.

> I saw messages on JFFS2 on NAND driver development in the MTD mailing
> list archives.

JFFS2 may not be the most appropriate filesystem for many NAND-based
embedded applications.  yaffs is nicer in some ways, for some
applications, and the nftl code has the advantage that grub groks nftl and
so does the M-Systems DOS firmware...

-Jasmine.

Re: DoC newbie

[lanas]

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:43:40 -0100 (GMT+1)
Jasmine Strong <jasmine@regolith.co.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Ilguiz Latypov wrote:

> > LILO would need disk I/O int 0x13 emulation.  Such layer is offered
> > by M-Sys.  I don't know if the source code for it is open.

> It isn't.  Furthermore, this list isn't the right place for discussing
> it, especially now that good free (and indeed Free) alternatives
> exist.

> > I saw messages on JFFS2 on NAND driver development in the MTD
> > mailing list archives.

> JFFS2 may not be the most appropriate filesystem for many NAND-based
> embedded applications.  yaffs is nicer in some ways, for some
> applications, and the nftl code has the advantage that grub groks nftl
> and so does the M-Systems DOS firmware...

Thanks for the replies, but what I really need is a very pratical
evaluation of the situation.  Do I say yes to buying many DoCs or do I
use simple IDE flash disks instead which I already got working and
booting.  If I see there's still a lot to be done regarding making DoCs
work with Linux then no problem.  The product has to be out in the
coming months, not in two years.  So this is why I was asking if there's
floating around a HOWTO of some sort or is this all 'still in the lab'
so to speak.

Cheers,

Al

Re: DoC newbie

[stephen]

Hi,

I know how to boot the DOC using the default native dos partition, last year
i used 'loadln.exe' only because I had to utilize already existing DOC,
which was 8 MB, so i used initrd to mount my root filesystem which ran in
memory, no problem with powering down problems, I also found after compiling
the kernel with DOC support i could write to the DOC after mounting as a DOS
partition, David helped me on this (many thanks), another reason for doing
it this way is that the AMPRO board i was using uses the DOC to store the
bios from eeprom, so I had to work my way around it,

it is definitely possible to boot from the DOC, i wouldnt reccomened ext2
though only because its not Journaling like ext3, ext2 will force fcsk which
can damage the DOC, which is what I am trying to do at the moment, as soon
as I've sussed it i'll let you know what i did, im using a 32MB diskonchip
at the moment,

maybe its a trade secret or summut? or it is not a worthy question for the
almighty forum! :D

kind regards

stephen
----- Original Message -----
From: "lanas" <lanas@t-online.de>
To: "Jasmine Strong" <jasmine@regolith.co.uk>
Cc: <linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: DoC newbie


> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:43:40 -0100 (GMT+1)
> Jasmine Strong <jasmine@regolith.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Ilguiz Latypov wrote:
>
> > > LILO would need disk I/O int 0x13 emulation.  Such layer is offered
> > > by M-Sys.  I don't know if the source code for it is open.
>
> > It isn't.  Furthermore, this list isn't the right place for discussing
> > it, especially now that good free (and indeed Free) alternatives
> > exist.
>
> > > I saw messages on JFFS2 on NAND driver development in the MTD
> > > mailing list archives.
>
> > JFFS2 may not be the most appropriate filesystem for many NAND-based
> > embedded applications.  yaffs is nicer in some ways, for some
> > applications, and the nftl code has the advantage that grub groks nftl
> > and so does the M-Systems DOS firmware...
>
> Thanks for the replies, but what I really need is a very pratical
> evaluation of the situation.  Do I say yes to buying many DoCs or do I
> use simple IDE flash disks instead which I already got working and
> booting.  If I see there's still a lot to be done regarding making DoCs
> work with Linux then no problem.  The product has to be out in the
> coming months, not in two years.  So this is why I was asking if there's
> floating around a HOWTO of some sort or is this all 'still in the lab'
> so to speak.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Al
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Linux MTD discussion mailing list
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/

Re: DoC newbie

[stephen]

Hi,

just managed to do it IM SO HAPPY! :E

karim yaghmours book, 'building embedded linux systems' if you follow it
exactly will show you how,

problem i was doing was replacing the SPL with stage2/pre_load2 converted to
grub_firmware by code in grub dir located in mtd cvs, patch not patching
correctly, also i'm using redhat 9, ive got no mkfs.minix (annoying) plus a
problem with 'automake' in regards to grub there is a patch that cures the
errors '-p1' which you can find here:

http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-grub/2003-01/msg00056.html

is it true redhat is now over , time for some slackware!

kind regards

stephen (happy as larry)

----- Original Message -----
From: "lanas" <lanas@t-online.de>
To: "Jasmine Strong" <jasmine@regolith.co.uk>
Cc: <linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: DoC newbie


> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:43:40 -0100 (GMT+1)
> Jasmine Strong <jasmine@regolith.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Ilguiz Latypov wrote:
>
> > > LILO would need disk I/O int 0x13 emulation.  Such layer is offered
> > > by M-Sys.  I don't know if the source code for it is open.
>
> > It isn't.  Furthermore, this list isn't the right place for discussing
> > it, especially now that good free (and indeed Free) alternatives
> > exist.
>
> > > I saw messages on JFFS2 on NAND driver development in the MTD
> > > mailing list archives.
>
> > JFFS2 may not be the most appropriate filesystem for many NAND-based
> > embedded applications.  yaffs is nicer in some ways, for some
> > applications, and the nftl code has the advantage that grub groks nftl
> > and so does the M-Systems DOS firmware...
>
> Thanks for the replies, but what I really need is a very pratical
> evaluation of the situation.  Do I say yes to buying many DoCs or do I
> use simple IDE flash disks instead which I already got working and
> booting.  If I see there's still a lot to be done regarding making DoCs
> work with Linux then no problem.  The product has to be out in the
> coming months, not in two years.  So this is why I was asking if there's
> floating around a HOWTO of some sort or is this all 'still in the lab'
> so to speak.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Al
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Linux MTD discussion mailing list
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/

Re: DoC newbie

[lanas]

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:27:20 -0000
"stephen" <lcbr17306@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Thanks to all for all the replies so far.  I've taken notes and I'll get
on with it today.

Meanwhile, is it also possible to install either the jffs2 file system
or either another type of journaling system targeted for leveling cell
wear on a regular flash IDE device ?

> just managed to do it IM SO HAPPY! :E

I hope to say this soon too ! ;-)

Cheers,

Al

Re: DoC newbie

[stephen]

Hi,

its quite tricky, I mean in :

/usr/src

I have:

3 versions of grub(0.92, 0.93, cvs "10/10/02")
4 versions of mtd snapshot(one which contains grub patch 10/08/2002)
3 kernels ("2.4".19 , .21, .22)
3 rtlinux versions (pre1, pre2, pre3)

I haven't patched kernel with mtd, I just used default, could this be
something to do with why nftl_format will not compile? if i go back to a
snapshot in 2002 I can compile nftl_format (?) or could this also be to do
with redhat 9 as base system (or one of tool set / compiler - havent checked
that), if I load the DOC with 'GRUB_F~1` :) SPL via DFORMAT utility, it
works (not with old toolset though) but my nftl formatting all went
pear-shape, also 'ctrlbypass' is very good, instead of me hot plugging the
jumper on the board im using. So I have used 'doc_loadbios' from the latest
MTD, 'nftl_format' from the 2002 MTD, grub patch 10/08/2002 from another
MTD, grub-automake patch downloaded from net (redhat uses latest - im not
very good on version numbers for compiler and toolsets).

 I'm not that sure how to use jffs2, I didn't include it in my kernel build
, but as far as I can tell at the moment it replaces the whole of my DOC
including SPL, so I have nftla1 partition with ext3 on it, currently its
booting the kernel from /boot, but chumps out on root filesystem thats
because i haven't built it yet, maybe that I should have made two
partitions, 2 MB, boot partition, rest as nftla2 for root. What about
resierfs? this is journalling also (i think), is ext3 a good choice? ill
make sure I back up my rootfs and do some power off tests (hehe)

cheers

stephen

----- Original Message -----
From: "lanas" <lanas@t-online.de>
To: <linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: DoC newbie


> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:27:20 -0000
> "stephen" <lcbr17306@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Thanks to all for all the replies so far.  I've taken notes and I'll get
> on with it today.
>
> Meanwhile, is it also possible to install either the jffs2 file system
> or either another type of journaling system targeted for leveling cell
> wear on a regular flash IDE device ?
>
> > just managed to do it IM SO HAPPY! :E
>
> I hope to say this soon too ! ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Al
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Linux MTD discussion mailing list
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/

Re: DoC newbie

[daniel]

Hi ,

[ Sorry if I inform you about things that others already mentioned, I've
missed a few posts from this thread. ]  

In the past I have booted and setup many diskonchip devices with grub. I
can't find the original HOWTO anymore, but this link is more or less
what I used to do, and it worked great. 

http://lakeshoremicro.com/diskonchip-grub-howto.html


> Meanwhile, is it also possible to install either the jffs2 file system
> or either another type of journaling system targeted for leveling cell
> wear on a regular flash IDE device ?

Using the blkmtd driver, which is an emulation layer. I feel it's
usefull to benefit from the compression that jffs2 offers (as opossed to
cramfs, which is also compressed , but read-only) - but i am not sure if
you really can benefit from the wear leveling that jffs2 offers, since
ide flash devices have controllers inside that have their own flash
trasnlation layer... 


Greetings, 
Daniel