From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5F63D33A0B for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2026 08:33:12 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=bombadil.20210309; h=Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post: List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:References: Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: List-Owner; bh=xVeSKXEWMb9eySGaZB9PZjCUQ81Y2nwxHCzbNIDF5xY=; b=1y8ogs7PDHgryE KY3PndH0oZx/qi1H2xUvntW8wb9zGm+5hHgwAUqgWGpdc8J6HESiwuax/bkEWNepD93PTCkGwOe3R ygSh965FjGWDcqFf1F6K84CaRiL7yVG81R7SIfUMu5aa7TPVD1LfDR5C4wtcWXo4/FjLTD4yvzjzP yEGx6chkmBILkFLfbcu8XSKttqRfIaxABhU1abmzNLNDzVce7qVPCbbh3xyiLPXxQSeqfggQeOGgu HrqA2LZ/f8z2l9FUtLmVm3NaPy5F1v0w4urLmOHIKU7CvYC/Cx38XpubcexIQwe/ZQeOsIrTE+x7O zKBmC+1Bsg90Bo8zJDlg==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=bombadil.infradead.org) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.98.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1vgIn0-0000000C09p-21NW; Thu, 15 Jan 2026 08:33:10 +0000 Received: from hch by bombadil.infradead.org with local (Exim 4.98.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1vgImu-0000000C08y-0V2p; Thu, 15 Jan 2026 08:33:04 +0000 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2026 00:33:04 -0800 From: Christoph Hellwig To: Christian Brauner Cc: Christoph Hellwig , Amir Goldstein , Jeff Layton , Chuck Lever , Jan Kara , Luis de Bethencourt , Salah Triki , Nicolas Pitre , Anders Larsen , Alexander Viro , David Sterba , Chris Mason , Gao Xiang , Chao Yu , Yue Hu , Jeffle Xu , Sandeep Dhavale , Hongbo Li , Chunhai Guo , Jan Kara , Theodore Ts'o , Andreas Dilger , Jaegeuk Kim , OGAWA Hirofumi , David Woodhouse , Richard Weinberger , Dave Kleikamp , Ryusuke Konishi , Viacheslav Dubeyko , Konstantin Komarov , Mark Fasheh , Joel Becker , Joseph Qi , Mike Marshall , Martin Brandenburg , Miklos Szeredi , Phillip Lougher , Carlos Maiolino , Hugh Dickins , Baolin Wang , Andrew Morton , Namjae Jeon , Sungjong Seo , Yuezhang Mo , Alexander Aring , Andreas Gruenbacher , Jonathan Corbet , "Matthew Wilcox (Oracle)" , Eric Van Hensbergen , Latchesar Ionkov , Dominique Martinet , Christian Schoenebeck , Xiubo Li , Ilya Dryomov , Trond Myklebust , Anna Schumaker , Steve French , Paulo Alcantara , Ronnie Sahlberg , Shyam Prasad N , Tom Talpey , Bharath SM , Hans de Goede , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-erofs@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, jfs-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-nilfs@vger.kernel.org, ntfs3@lists.linux.dev, ocfs2-devel@lists.linux.dev, devel@lists.orangefs.org, linux-unionfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, gfs2@lists.linux.dev, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, v9fs@lists.linux.dev, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/24] vfs: require filesystems to explicitly opt-in to lease support Message-ID: References: <20260113-mondlicht-raven-82fc4eb70e9d@brauner> <20260114-klarstellen-blamieren-0b7d40182800@brauner> <20260115-inspektion-kochbuch-505d8f94829e@brauner> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20260115-inspektion-kochbuch-505d8f94829e@brauner> X-BeenThere: linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux MTD discussion mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-mtd" Errors-To: linux-mtd-bounces+linux-mtd=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Thu, Jan 15, 2026 at 09:14:06AM +0100, Christian Brauner wrote: > On Wed, Jan 14, 2026 at 10:42:48PM -0800, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2026 at 04:20:13PM +0100, Christian Brauner wrote: > > > > You're still think of it the wrong way. If we do have file systems > > > > that break the original exportfs semantics we need to fix that, and > > > > something like a "stable handles" flag will work well for that. But > > > > a totally arbitrary "is exportable" flag is total nonsense. > > > > > > File handles can legitimately be conceptualized independently of > > > exporting a filesystem. If we wanted to tear those concepts apart > > > implementation wise we could. > > > > > > It is complete nonsense to expect the kernel to support exporting any > > > arbitrary internal filesystem or to not support file handles at all. > > > > You are going even further down the path of entirely missing the point > > (or the two points by now). > > You're arguing for the sake of arguing imho. You're getting exactly what > we're all saying as evidenced by the last paragraph in your mail: it is > entirely what this whole thing is about. I can't even parse what you mean. And no, I hate these stupid arguments, and I have much better things to do than dragging this on. > > If a file systems meets all technical requirements of being nfsd > > exportable and the users asks for it, it is not our job to make an > > arbitrary policy decision to say no. > > This is an entirely irrelevant point because we're talking about > cgroupfs, nsfs, and pidfs. And they don't meet this criteria. cgroupfs > is a _local resource management filesystem_ why would we ever want to > support exporting it over the network. It allows to break the local > delegation model as I've explained. cgroupfs shows _local processes_. So > a server will see completely nonsensical PID identifiers listed in > cgroup files and it can fsck around with processes in a remote system. None of that is a technical argument. The lack of stable file handles would be one, and I think we came to the conclusion yesterday that this is the case. ______________________________________________________ Linux MTD discussion mailing list http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/