From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E1666A34F for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2024 20:14:46 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=18.9.28.11 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1714076089; cv=none; b=ZzgF2aFYUdwegtdD9ZDdl8qfKeAbcqSWyq2iqaNQnNwBzQKhiJbpMfGnJnAtzDXE1mK80i8TFsXDXGjd+gSMGz5TdIRE7EZBrIJWniNj7adp2xfgGErLn2xWb2b9ERIXuk4Ir6s58orFxp0CzmVK3WAPOzr/uIifD0IEBSN/Y50= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1714076089; c=relaxed/simple; bh=qjFKtsoAKCz0ScKoe6yzt15InsGEID68ILFHrtMbLCw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To; b=mI3fq6o5d51tXu7hr42iUpMdoQifaYQzSwyicvbrONKDMe4kDquYwMdRJ1ojsOTPQ7H2iOGVAbyuKqiUdoKox94uXPDziaJRA+PHScI9I9SoqpGVmGf5yn+o2jQBi+AO7k0L7YnYGMh83lzAI5vBtbsUmjykpSiVXnPYJBAad9k= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=mit.edu; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=mit.edu; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mit.edu header.i=@mit.edu header.b=hqSDzkI1; arc=none smtp.client-ip=18.9.28.11 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=mit.edu Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=mit.edu Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mit.edu header.i=@mit.edu header.b="hqSDzkI1" Received: from cwcc.thunk.org (pool-173-48-113-2.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [173.48.113.2]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 43PKERbt012079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 25 Apr 2024 16:14:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mit.edu; s=outgoing; t=1714076069; bh=NABw6fRRVPQSSx2uzfH9QlrfV+blNnHcxwPSqibtEds=; h=Date:From:Subject:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=hqSDzkI1f6rWdtqkz9/qJAnEa48MpHW6FwruYovbhKJ1o6TaA5hLYZU/e4W+BkVLu nbTxWSN0UqM6JjXrppYmCz1OE+P/51bj50FEkm3U/1E+QAJeqMU07LkrFuKwF9ccgy VTcvUR88TE9xpLi/VYcEmgnKILxfg1C58V1W1aT2USCNLZNX4rFRDuha7K7HKCqoDp FUwt7R+1TNG89A0WzHpKyY+QI6PqVP4NKmS+NVJdGlfK8TOqg+l/e7KZAJ3tFJmTF3 NyNIbEWrZSMH+76Afg/8MmcES50AMb4hVDzL5uTt//EeCp8PNlPHOtTjhFyEWHEcFc Z3QaR0cURfY3A== Received: by cwcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id 52FA515C0CBA; Thu, 25 Apr 2024 16:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 16:14:27 -0400 From: "Theodore Ts'o" To: Josh Marshall Cc: Jonathan Corbet , "Bilbao, Carlos" , ngn , linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org, "linux-doc@vger.kernel.org" , pranjal.singh4370@gmail.com, "bilbao@vt.edu" Subject: Re: Feedback on my development setup Message-ID: <20240425201427.GC3749403@mit.edu> References: <7ba7cff1-8d9d-4bc3-a74c-6f6828c9195e@amd.com> <87o79xqxtp.fsf@meer.lwn.net> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 01:08:36PM -0400, Josh Marshall wrote: > > I cannot abide by this. Not out of obstinance. This document is not > written for a veteran. It probably isn't even written for anyone on > this list. It is meant to be much more approachable than that. > Comparing to the closest existing document at > https://docs.kernel.org/dev-tools/gdb-kernel-debugging.html , the > difference in intended audience and skill level is stark. Let alone > being able to find that document since it is so buried relative to the > intent of someone trying to get started. I have heard several times " > you should rather improve existing docs" but without really breaking > into all the implications that 'just' doesn't help. Given the back > and forth required to express the finesse here, I am willing to have a > phone or video call to get this right. Just as there are dozens of git tutorials which are floating around the web which are separate from the official git documentation, if what you want is to have an unofficial document designed for a specific audience which is not the "vetran", that's totally fine. Perhaps you can work with the kernel newbies folks, and look at joining forces with their documentation, e.g.: https://kernelnewbies.org/FirstKernelPatch The benefit of joining forces with them might be that more people will see your document. A random gitlab page is not going to be as discoverable. So I think there may be some crosstalk because your goals might not be what others have been assuming your goals to be. If you want to have your own unofficial kernel tutorial, have at it! You don't need to get permission from anyone else, and you don't need to engage with the community on this mailing list or anywhere else. The flip side is if you want to get input from this community, you may find that you are more likely to get that help if you are discussing things on the mailing list, as opposed to expecting us to go find your gitlab site and participating there. We can't force you to use mailing list threads; but at the same time, your expecting to us to use gitlab might not be very fruitful. Best regards, - Ted