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From: Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@redhat.com>
To: Jeff Layton <jlayton@redhat.com>
Cc: Matt Benjamin <mbenjami@redhat.com>,
	Steven Whitehouse <swhiteho@redhat.com>,
	"J. Bruce Fields" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
	"Daniel P. Berrange" <berrange@redhat.com>,
	Chuck Lever <chuck.lever@oracle.com>,
	Steve Dickson <SteveD@redhat.com>,
	Linux NFS Mailing List <linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org>,
	Justin Mitchell <jumitche@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH nfs-utils v3 00/14] add NFS over AF_VSOCK support
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 16:28:55 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170922152855.GD13709@stefanha-x1.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1506083199.4740.38.camel@redhat.com>

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 08:26:39AM -0400, Jeff Layton wrote:
> I'm not sure there is a strong one. I most just thought it sounded like
> a possible solution here.
> 
> There's already a standard in place for doing RPC over AF_LOCAL, so
> there's less work to be done there. We also already have AF_LOCAL
> transport in the kernel (mostly for talking to rpcbind), so there's
> helps reduce the maintenance burden there.
> 
> It utilizes something that looks like a traditional unix socket, which
> may make it easier to alter other applications to use it. 
> 
> There's also a clear way to "firewall" this -- just don't mount hvsockfs
> (or whatever), or don't build it into the kernel. No filesystem, no
> sockets.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd agree about this being more restrictive, necessarily.
> If we did this, you could envision eventually building something that
> looks like this to a running host, but where the remote end is something
> else entirely. Whether that's truly useful, IDK...

This approach where communications channels appear on the file system is
similar to the existing virtio-serial device.  The guest driver creates
a character device for each serial communications channel configured on
the host.  It's a character device node though and not a UNIX domain
socket.

One of the main reasons for adding virtio-vsock was to get native
Sockets API communications that most applications expect (including
NFS!).  Serial char device semantics are awkward.

Sticking with AF_LOCAL for a moment, another approach is for AF_VSOCK
tunnel to the NFS traffic:

  (host)# vsock-proxy-daemon --unix-domain-socket path/to/local.sock
                             --listen --port 2049
  (host)# nfsd --local path/to/local.sock ...

  (guest)# vsock-proxy-daemon --unix-domain-socket path/to/local.sock
                              --cid 2 --port 2049
  (guest)# mount -t nfs -o proto=local path/to/local.sock /mnt

It has drawbacks over native AF_VSOCK support:

1. Certain NFS protocol features become impossible to implement since
   there is no meaningful address information that can be exchanged
   between client and server (e.g. separate backchannel connection,
   pNFS, etc).  Are you sure AF_LOCAL makes sense for NFS?

2. Performance is worse due to extra proxy daemon.

If I understand correctly both Linux and nfs-utils lack NFS AF_LOCAL
support although it is present in sunrpc.  For example, today
fs/nfsd/nfsctl.c cannot add UNIX domain sockets.  Similarly, the
nfs-utils nsfd program has no command-line syntax for UNIX domain
sockets.

Funnily enough making AF_LOCAL work for NFS requires similar changes to
the patches I've posted for AF_VSOCK.  I think AF_LOCAL tunnelling is a
technically inferior solution than native AF_VSOCK support (for the
reasons mentioned above), but I appreciate that it insulates NFS from
AF_VSOCK specifics and could be used in other use cases too.

Can someone with more knowledge than myself confirm that NFS over
AF_LOCAL would actually work?  I thought the ability to exchange
addressing information across RPC was quite important for the NFS
protocol.

Stefan

  reply	other threads:[~2017-09-22 15:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-09-13 10:26 [PATCH nfs-utils v3 00/14] add NFS over AF_VSOCK support Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 01/14] mount: don't use IPPROTO_UDP for address resolution Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 02/14] nfs-utils: add vsock.h Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 03/14] nfs-utils: add AF_VSOCK support to sockaddr.h Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 04/14] mount: present AF_VSOCK addresses Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 05/14] mount: accept AF_VSOCK in nfs_verify_family() Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 06/14] mount: generate AF_VSOCK clientaddr Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 07/14] getport: recognize "vsock" netid Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 08/14] mount: AF_VSOCK address parsing Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 09/14] exportfs: introduce host_freeaddrinfo() Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 10/14] exportfs: add AF_VSOCK address parsing and printing Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 11/14] exportfs: add AF_VSOCK support to set_addrlist() Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 12/14] exportfs: add support for "vsock:" exports(5) syntax Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 13/14] nfsd: add --vsock (-v) option to nfsd Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 10:26 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 14/14] tests: add "vsock:" exports(5) test case Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 16:21 ` [PATCH nfs-utils v3 00/14] add NFS over AF_VSOCK support Christoph Hellwig
2017-09-13 18:18   ` [nfsv4] " David Noveck
2017-09-13 18:21     ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-15 11:52       ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-13 22:39 ` NeilBrown
2017-09-14 15:39 ` Steve Dickson
2017-09-14 15:55   ` Steve Dickson
2017-09-14 17:37     ` J . Bruce Fields
2017-09-15 11:07       ` Jeff Layton
2017-09-15 15:17         ` J . Bruce Fields
2017-09-15 23:29           ` NeilBrown
2017-09-16 14:55             ` J . Bruce Fields
2017-09-15 13:12       ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-15 13:31         ` J . Bruce Fields
2017-09-15 13:59           ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-15 16:42             ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-16 15:55               ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-18 18:09                 ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-19  9:31                   ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-19 14:35                     ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-19 15:10                       ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-19 15:48                         ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-19 16:44                           ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-19 17:24                             ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-21 17:00                               ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-22  9:55                                 ` Steven Whitehouse
2017-09-22 11:32                                   ` Jeff Layton
2017-09-22 12:08                                     ` Matt Benjamin
2017-09-22 12:26                                       ` Jeff Layton
2017-09-22 15:28                                         ` Stefan Hajnoczi [this message]
2017-09-22 16:23                                           ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-22 18:31                                             ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-25  8:14                                               ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-25 10:31                                                 ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-22 11:43                                   ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-22 11:55                                     ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-22 12:00                                       ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-22 12:10                                         ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-22 19:14                                       ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-25  8:30                                         ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-26  2:08                                       ` NeilBrown
2017-09-26  3:40                                         ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-26 10:56                                           ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-26 11:07                                             ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-26 18:32                                             ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-27  0:45                                             ` NeilBrown
2017-09-27 13:05                                               ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-27 22:21                                                 ` NeilBrown
2017-09-28 10:44                                                   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-27 13:35                                               ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-27 22:25                                                 ` NeilBrown
2017-09-26 13:39                                           ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-26 13:42                                             ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-27 12:22                                               ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-27 13:46                                                 ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-28 10:34                                                   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-19 17:37                             ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-19 19:56                             ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-19 20:42                               ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-19 21:09                                 ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-20 13:16                                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-20 14:40                                     ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-20 14:45                                       ` J. Bruce Fields
2017-09-20 14:59                                         ` Chuck Lever
2017-09-20 15:25                                           ` Frank Filz
2017-09-20 18:17                                             ` Trond Myklebust
2017-09-20 18:34                                               ` bfields
2017-09-20 18:38                                                 ` Trond Myklebust
2017-09-21 16:20                                                 ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2017-09-20 14:58                                     ` Daniel P. Berrange
2017-09-20 16:39                                       ` J. Bruce Fields

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