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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 74d77983c061dd50f267fe5c917be7ff; Fri, 01 Dec 2023 18:54:57 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <660e8516-ec1b-41b4-9e04-2b9fabbe59ca@schaufler-ca.com> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 10:54:54 -0800 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 23/23] integrity: Switch from rbtree to LSM-managed blob for integrity_iint_cache Content-Language: en-US To: "Dr. Greg" , Roberto Sassu Cc: Paul Moore , viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk, brauner@kernel.org, chuck.lever@oracle.com, jlayton@kernel.org, neilb@suse.de, kolga@netapp.com, Dai.Ngo@oracle.com, tom@talpey.com, jmorris@namei.org, serge@hallyn.com, zohar@linux.ibm.com, dmitry.kasatkin@gmail.com, dhowells@redhat.com, jarkko@kernel.org, stephen.smalley.work@gmail.com, eparis@parisplace.org, mic@digikod.net, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, Roberto Sassu , Casey Schaufler References: <20231107134012.682009-24-roberto.sassu@huaweicloud.com> <17befa132379d37977fc854a8af25f6d.paul@paul-moore.com> <2084adba3c27a606cbc5ed7b3214f61427a829dd.camel@huaweicloud.com> <90eb8e9d-c63e-42d6-b951-f856f31590db@huaweicloud.com> <20231201010549.GA8923@wind.enjellic.com> From: Casey Schaufler In-Reply-To: <20231201010549.GA8923@wind.enjellic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo On 11/30/2023 5:05 PM, Dr. Greg wrote: > A suggestion has been made in this thread that there needs to be broad > thinking on this issue, and by extension, other tough problems. On > that note, we would be interested in any thoughts regarding the notion > of a long term solution for this issue being the migration of EVM to a > BPF based implementation? > > There appears to be consensus that the BPF LSM will always go last, a > BPF implementation would seem to address the EVM ordering issue. > > In a larger context, there have been suggestions in other LSM threads > that BPF is the future for doing LSM's. Coincident with that has come > some disagreement about whether or not BPF embodies sufficient > functionality for this role. > > The EVM codebase is reasonably modest with a very limited footprint of > hooks that it handles. A BPF implementation on this scale would seem > to go a long ways in placing BPF sufficiency concerns to rest. > > Thoughts/issues? Converting EVM to BPF looks like a 5 to 10 year process. Creating a EVM design description to work from, building all the support functions required, then getting sufficient reviews and testing isn't going to be a walk in the park. That leaves out the issue of distribution of the EVM-BPF programs. Consider how the rush to convert kernel internals to Rust is progressing. EVM isn't huge, but it isn't trivial, either. Tetsuo had a good hard look at converting TOMOYO to BPF, and concluded that it wasn't practical. TOMOYO is considerably less complicated than EVM.