* [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems @ 2018-02-01 0:45 Andiry Xu 2018-02-01 1:03 ` Dan Williams 2018-02-01 1:47 ` Darrick J. Wong 0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Andiry Xu @ 2018-02-01 0:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: lsf-pc Cc: jix024, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, david, willy, Linux MM, Linux FS Devel, swanson PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system performance and enable new programming models that allow direct, efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…) presents a range of challenges (e.g., https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot of recent work on ext4 and xfs. An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of another file system. We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with several nice features: * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient fine-grained logging * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems to improve NVMM performance. We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX. Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox. Thanks, Andiry _______________________________________________ Linux-nvdimm mailing list Linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvdimm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems 2018-02-01 0:45 [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems Andiry Xu @ 2018-02-01 1:03 ` Dan Williams 2018-02-01 1:13 ` Dan Williams 2018-02-01 1:47 ` Darrick J. Wong 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Dan Williams @ 2018-02-01 1:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andiry Xu Cc: jix024, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, david, Matthew Wilcox, Linux MM, Linux FS Devel, swanson, lsf-pc On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Andiry Xu <andiry@gmail.com> wrote: > PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system > performance and enable new programming models that allow direct, > efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in > existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…) > presents a range of challenges (e.g., > https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot > of recent work on ext4 and xfs. > > An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that > takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids > the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize > performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on > many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of > another file system. > > We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware > file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with > several nice features: > > * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient > fine-grained logging > * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging > * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations > * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap > * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection > > At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between > adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting > a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting > point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may > also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems > to improve NVMM performance. > > We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX. > Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan > Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox. The rest of the fs-dax crew would also be useful to have: Jan Kara Ross Zwisler _______________________________________________ Linux-nvdimm mailing list Linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvdimm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems 2018-02-01 1:03 ` Dan Williams @ 2018-02-01 1:13 ` Dan Williams 2018-02-07 10:41 ` Jan Kara 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Dan Williams @ 2018-02-01 1:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andiry Xu Cc: lsf-pc, Linux FS Devel, Linux MM, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, david, Matthew Wilcox, swanson, jix024, Jan Kara, Ross Zwisler [ adding Jan and Ross ] On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 5:03 PM, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> wrote: > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Andiry Xu <andiry@gmail.com> wrote: >> PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system >> performance and enable new programming models that allow direct, >> efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in >> existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…) >> presents a range of challenges (e.g., >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot >> of recent work on ext4 and xfs. >> >> An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that >> takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids >> the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize >> performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on >> many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of >> another file system. >> >> We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware >> file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with >> several nice features: >> >> * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient >> fine-grained logging >> * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging >> * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations >> * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap >> * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection >> >> At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between >> adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting >> a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting >> point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may >> also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems >> to improve NVMM performance. >> >> We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX. >> Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan >> Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox. > > The rest of the fs-dax crew would also be useful to have: > > Jan Kara > Ross Zwisler -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems 2018-02-01 1:13 ` Dan Williams @ 2018-02-07 10:41 ` Jan Kara 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Jan Kara @ 2018-02-07 10:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Williams Cc: Andiry Xu, lsf-pc, Linux FS Devel, Linux MM, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, david, Matthew Wilcox, swanson, jix024, Jan Kara, Ross Zwisler On Wed 31-01-18 17:13:37, Dan Williams wrote: > [ adding Jan and Ross ] > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 5:03 PM, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Andiry Xu <andiry@gmail.com> wrote: > >> PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system > >> performance and enable new programming models that allow direct, > >> efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in > >> existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…) > >> presents a range of challenges (e.g., > >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot > >> of recent work on ext4 and xfs. > >> > >> An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that > >> takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids > >> the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize > >> performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on > >> many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of > >> another file system. > >> > >> We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware > >> file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with > >> several nice features: > >> > >> * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient > >> fine-grained logging > >> * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging > >> * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations > >> * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap > >> * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection > >> > >> At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between > >> adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting > >> a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting > >> point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may > >> also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems > >> to improve NVMM performance. > >> > >> We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX. > >> Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan > >> Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox. > > > > The rest of the fs-dax crew would also be useful to have: > > > > Jan Kara > > Ross Zwisler Thanks Dan. Yes, I'd be interested in discussions about NOVA. In fact I guess the biggest obstacle is currently the review bandwidth. New filesystem is a substantial chunk of code and although it does not have to be perfect to include it in the kernel it still needs at least some basic review... Honza -- Jan Kara <jack@suse.com> SUSE Labs, CR -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems 2018-02-01 0:45 [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems Andiry Xu 2018-02-01 1:03 ` Dan Williams @ 2018-02-01 1:47 ` Darrick J. Wong 2018-02-01 2:12 ` Andiry Xu 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Darrick J. Wong @ 2018-02-01 1:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andiry Xu Cc: lsf-pc, Linux FS Devel, Linux MM, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, dan.j.williams, david, willy, swanson, jix024 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 04:45:36PM -0800, Andiry Xu wrote: > PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system > performance and enable new programming models that allow direct, > efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in > existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…) > presents a range of challenges (e.g., > https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot > of recent work on ext4 and xfs. > > An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that > takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids > the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize > performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on > many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of > another file system. > > We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware > file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with > several nice features: That's the series that was sent out last August, correct? > * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient > fine-grained logging > * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging > * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations > * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap > * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection > > At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between > adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting > a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting > point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may > also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems > to improve NVMM performance. > > We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX. > Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan > Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox. I wouldn't mind being there too. :) --D > > Thanks, > Andiry -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@kvack.org. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Native NVMM file systems 2018-02-01 1:47 ` Darrick J. Wong @ 2018-02-01 2:12 ` Andiry Xu 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Andiry Xu @ 2018-02-01 2:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Darrick J. Wong Cc: Linux MM, Andiry Xu, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, Dave Chinner, willy, Linux FS Devel, Andiry Xu, Steven Swanson, lsf-pc On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Darrick J. Wong <darrick.wong@oracle.com> wrote: > On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 04:45:36PM -0800, Andiry Xu wrote: >> PMEM/DAX should allow for significant improvements in file system >> performance and enable new programming models that allow direct, >> efficient access to PMEM from userspace. Achieving these gains in >> existing file systems built for block devices (e.g., XFS and EXT4…) >> presents a range of challenges (e.g., >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/9/11/159) and has been the subject of a lot >> of recent work on ext4 and xfs. >> >> An alternative is to build a NVMM-aware file system from scratch that >> takes full advantage of the performance that PMEM offers and avoids >> the complexity that block-based file systems include to maximize >> performance on slow storage (e.g., relaxing atomicity constraints on >> many operations). Of course, it also brings with it the complexity of >> another file system. >> >> We recently sent out a patch set for one-such “clean slate” NVMM-aware >> file system called NOVA. NOVA is log-structured DAX file system with >> several nice features: > > That's the series that was sent out last August, correct? > Yes. We are preparing another round of submission. >> * High performance, especially in metadata operations due to efficient >> fine-grained logging >> * High scalability with per-CPU memory pool and per-inode logging >> * Strong metadata and data atomicity guarantees for all operations >> * Full filesystem snapshot support with DAX-mmap >> * Metadata replication/checksums and RAID-4 style data protection >> >> At the summit, we would like to discuss the trade-offs between >> adapting NVMM features to existing file systems vs. creating/adopting >> a purpose-built file system for NVMM. NOVA serves as useful starting >> point for that discussion by demonstrating what’s possible. It may >> also suggest some features that could be adapted to other file systems >> to improve NVMM performance. >> >> We welcome people that are interested in file systems and NVM/DAX. >> Particular people that would be useful to have in attendance are Dan >> Williams, Dave Chinner, and Matthew Wilcox. > > I wouldn't mind being there too. :) > Welcome:) Thanks, Andiry > --D > >> >> Thanks, >> Andiry _______________________________________________ Linux-nvdimm mailing list Linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org https://lists.01.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvdimm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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