From: Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>
To: Alan Adamson <alan.adamson@oracle.com>,
John Garry <john.g.garry@oracle.com>,
Keith Busch <kbusch@kernel.org>,
"Martin K. Petersen" <martin.petersen@oracle.com>,
Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>
Cc: linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org
Subject: What should we do about the nvme atomics mess?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2025 16:18:34 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20250707141834.GA30198@lst.de> (raw)
Hi all,
I'm a bit lost on what to do about the sad state of NVMe atomic writes.
As a short reminder the main issues are:
1) there is no flag on a command to request atomic (aka non-torn)
behavior, instead writes adhering to the atomicy requirements will
never be torn, and writes not adhering them can be torn any time.
This differs from SCSI where atomic writes have to be be explicitly
requested and fail when they can't be satisfied
2) the original way to indicate the main atomicy limit is the AWUPF
field, which is in Identify Controller, but specified in logical
blocks which only exist at a namespace layer. This a) lead to
various problems because the limit is a mess when namespace have
different logical block sizes, and it b) also causes additional
issues because NVMe allows it to be different for different
controllers in the same subsystem.
Commit 8695f060a029 added some sanity checks to deal with issue 2b,
but we kept running into more issues with it. Partially because
the check wasn't quite correct, but also because we've gotten
reports of controllers that change the AWUPF value when reformatting
namespaces to deal with issue 2a.
And I'm a bit lost on what to do here.
We could:
I. revert the check and the subsequent fixup. If you really want
to use the nvme atomics you already better pray a lot anyway
due to issue 1)
II. limit the check to multi-controller subsystems
III. don't allow atomics on controllers that only report AWUPF and
limit support to controllers that support that more sanely
defined NAWUPF
I guess for 6.16 we are limited to I. to bring us back to the previous
state, but I have a really bad gut feeling about it given the really
bad spec language and a lot of low quality NVMe implementations we're
seeing these days.
not the
next reply other threads:[~2025-07-07 14:39 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2025-07-07 14:18 Christoph Hellwig [this message]
2025-07-07 14:24 ` What should we do about the nvme atomics mess? Keith Busch
2025-07-07 15:26 ` Hannes Reinecke
2025-07-07 15:56 ` Keith Busch
2025-07-07 23:35 ` Chaitanya Kulkarni
2025-07-08 9:47 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-07-08 15:19 ` Keith Busch
2025-07-08 1:27 ` Ming Lei
2025-07-08 2:27 ` Keith Busch
2025-07-08 2:46 ` Ming Lei
2025-07-08 2:56 ` Keith Busch
2025-07-08 3:17 ` Ming Lei
2025-07-08 9:38 ` Niklas Cassel
2025-07-08 9:48 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-07-08 10:08 ` John Garry
2025-07-09 7:51 ` Nilay Shroff
2025-07-09 21:28 ` Keith Busch
2025-07-10 5:07 ` Nilay Shroff
2025-07-10 7:17 ` Christoph Hellwig
2025-10-20 13:42 ` John Garry
2025-10-21 15:02 ` Nilay Shroff
2025-10-22 8:50 ` John Garry
2025-10-22 15:24 ` Nilay Shroff
2025-12-08 12:11 ` Nilay Shroff
2025-12-09 8:26 ` John Garry
2026-01-22 10:06 ` Nilay Shroff
2026-01-22 10:16 ` John Garry
2026-01-26 12:56 ` Christoph Hellwig
2026-01-26 12:58 ` John Garry
2026-01-26 13:01 ` Martin K. Petersen
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