From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61447C28B2F for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2025 15:10:59 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=bombadil.20210309; h=Sender:List-Subscribe:List-Help :List-Post:List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=jCMKibseP4KFSn0ywhPyrWZOEKM611o1ZzvPtJMJlW8=; b=2Gi6+TpcM8JLZR6qx9U15MVivy eJ9F4/wNHTM0v5BmICHUfvSKwbKi0ag7fBR58l0utHsMVN/I2e0idpu/5NtiIknrgYCtccScsDA0d ZqNyiW0vBIZATJtlILO11eYVP0d+bthpkz5PcTWisuezF+2e1uBZvnX9cfI0a2mQU7uRUEi3KLq1V 8MqXmBr0vdSKlflFLhb5fbAoKdpVjPI5esJ1ZQsOG+DZDq9qbznOsbpkapVBeq1Ry+dylD55GJUht 0ERmM3usCZXFkumF5lxhIs9dIHC2xrS98xTntDwNutp4maQl56AepyRVWzfYDFas/sS49HgaGS3Nv JWhdu/RQ==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=bombadil.infradead.org) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.98 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1tsNjT-00000008nbp-1oif; Wed, 12 Mar 2025 15:10:55 +0000 Received: from hch by bombadil.infradead.org with local (Exim 4.98 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1tsNhu-00000008nLt-3CA3; Wed, 12 Mar 2025 15:09:18 +0000 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2025 08:09:18 -0700 From: Christoph Hellwig To: Matthew Wilcox Cc: Hannes Reinecke , Vlastimil Babka , Hannes Reinecke , Boris Pismenny , John Fastabend , Jakub Kicinski , Sagi Grimberg , "linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org" , "linux-block@vger.kernel.org" , linux-mm@kvack.org, Harry Yoo , "netdev@vger.kernel.org" Subject: Re: Networking people smell funny and make poor life choices Message-ID: References: <27111897-0b36-4d8c-8be9-4f8bdbae88b7@suse.cz> <7439cb2f-6a97-494b-aa10-e9bebb218b58@suse.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: "Linux-nvme" Errors-To: linux-nvme-bounces+linux-nvme=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Wed, Mar 05, 2025 at 06:11:24PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > Networking needs to follow block's lead and STOP GETTING REFCOUNTS ON > PAGES. The block layer never took references on pages. The direct I/O helpers that just happened to set in block/ did hold references and abused some field in the bio for it (and still do for the pinning), but the reference was (and the pin now is) owned by the submitter. The block layer model has always been that the submitter needs to ensure memory stays allocated until the I/O has completed. Which IMHO is the only sane model for dealing with memory lifetimes vs I/O, and something networking absolutely should follow.