From: Felipe Balbi <felipe.balbi@nokia.com>
To: ext James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@suse.de>
Cc: "Balbi Felipe (Nokia-D/Helsinki)" <felipe.balbi@nokia.com>,
"me@felipebalbi.com" <me@felipebalbi.com>,
Kevin Hilman <khilman@deeprootsystems.com>,
Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
"linux-omap@vger.kernel.org" <linux-omap@vger.kernel.org>,
Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>,
Geoff Smith <geoffx.smith@intel.com>,
Brian Swetland <swetland@google.com>,
Kernel development list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
Mark Brown <broonie@opensource.wolfsonmicro.com>,
Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>,
Linux-pm mailing list <linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org>,
Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>,
Liam Girdwood <lrg@slimlogic.co.uk>,
Matthew Garrett <mjg@redhat.com>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [linux-pm] [PATCH 0/8] Suspend block api (version 6)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:59:34 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100519065934.GH12879@nokia.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1274191188.10304.5.camel@mulgrave.site>
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 03:59:48PM +0200, ext James Bottomley wrote:
>On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 09:40 +0300, Felipe Balbi wrote:
>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 09:49:35PM +0200, ext James Bottomley wrote:
>> >Right, because Firmware writers are from the rugged unresponsive uplands
>> >of planet
>> >ignore-user-complaints-and-eat-them-for-breakfast-if-they-file-bugs and
>> >Software writers are from the emollient responsive groves of planet
>> >harmony. Obviously what would work for one wouldn't work for the other.
>> >
>> >As a software writer, I fully buy into that world view. The trouble is
>> >that when I go to dinner with hardware people, they seem to be awfully
>> >nice chaps ... almost exactly like me, in fact ...
>>
>> what does this add to suspend_blockers discussion ?
>
>Sorry I was evidently being too subtle.
>
>The point is that if, as you acknowledge, that you can't train firmware
>engineers to be responsive, there's no reason to think you can train
>software engineers in the same quality ... they're very similar people.
I wouldn't say it's up to the engineer himself, it's more related to how
the company that person works for deal with such things.
>The corollary is that real world systems have to operate in the face of
>misbehaving hardware *and* software.
I still think the kernel shouldn't deal with broken applications and we
shouldn't try to fix them in kernel space. We can, of course, try to
find them and have all sorts of bells and whistles shouting 'process
%s is preventing CPU from sleeping for %llu nanoseconds' or something
like that.
--
balbi
DefectiveByDesign.org
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-05-19 6:59 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 186+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <1272667021-21312-1-git-send-email-arve@android.com>
2010-05-13 3:35 ` [linux-pm] [PATCH 0/8] Suspend block api (version 6) Paul Walmsley
2010-05-13 12:17 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 17:33 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-13 18:17 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-13 18:25 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-13 18:36 ` [linux-pm] " Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 18:59 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-13 19:11 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 19:36 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-13 19:48 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 21:11 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-13 21:16 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-13 21:27 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-13 21:33 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-13 21:36 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 21:54 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-13 21:46 ` Greg KH
2010-05-13 22:27 ` Mark Brown
2010-05-13 22:45 ` Greg KH
2010-05-14 0:03 ` Mark Brown
2010-05-13 22:46 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-13 23:36 ` Mark Brown
2010-05-13 23:48 ` [linux-pm] " Brian Swetland
2010-05-14 0:29 ` Mark Brown
2010-05-13 22:33 ` Woodruff, Richard
2010-05-13 22:46 ` Greg KH
2010-05-13 23:06 ` [linux-pm] " Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-13 23:28 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-14 16:47 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-13 14:16 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-13 19:17 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 19:25 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 19:42 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 19:53 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 20:00 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 20:08 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 20:23 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 20:34 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 21:10 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 21:21 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 21:34 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-15 19:54 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-13 21:21 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-13 21:25 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 21:56 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-14 20:41 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-14 21:25 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-14 21:40 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-14 21:50 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-14 22:45 ` [linux-pm] " Kevin Hilman
2010-05-14 22:59 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-15 2:58 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-15 3:40 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-15 21:19 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-17 15:40 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-17 17:04 ` James Bottomley
2010-05-17 17:47 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-17 17:58 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-17 18:16 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-17 17:59 ` James Bottomley
2010-05-17 18:12 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-17 18:26 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-17 18:39 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-17 18:45 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-17 20:22 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-17 18:45 ` Mark Brown
2010-05-17 18:47 ` Mike Chan
2010-05-17 19:24 ` James Bottomley
2010-05-17 19:38 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-17 19:39 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-17 19:49 ` James Bottomley
2010-05-18 6:40 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-18 13:59 ` James Bottomley
2010-05-19 6:59 ` Felipe Balbi [this message]
2010-05-19 20:42 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-20 4:49 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-20 11:27 ` Vladimir Pantelic
2010-05-20 11:29 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-20 17:40 ` David Brownell
2010-05-20 18:50 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-20 23:08 ` David Brownell
2010-05-20 5:15 ` Florian Mickler
2010-05-20 8:57 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-20 8:57 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-20 10:05 ` [linux-pm] " Florian Mickler
2010-05-20 10:15 ` Felipe Balbi
2010-05-17 18:54 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-17 17:57 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-15 20:14 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-16 19:44 ` Mark Brown
2010-05-13 22:24 ` tytso
2010-05-13 20:36 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-14 16:06 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-24 21:25 ` Pavel Machek
2010-05-13 21:41 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-13 21:54 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 22:07 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-13 22:26 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-13 21:14 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-13 21:31 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 21:57 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-13 21:37 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-13 21:47 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 22:01 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-13 22:08 ` Tony Lindgren
2010-05-13 22:28 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-15 2:35 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-15 4:04 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-13 22:04 ` [linux-pm] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-14 3:25 ` Magnus Damm
2010-05-14 16:18 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-15 2:47 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-24 21:24 ` Pavel Machek
[not found] ` <1272667021-21312-2-git-send-email-arve@android.com>
2010-05-13 19:01 ` [PATCH 1/8] PM: Add suspend block api Paul Walmsley
2010-05-14 20:05 ` Paul Walmsley
[not found] ` <87wrvl5479.fsf@deeprootsystems.com>
[not found] ` <20100503180741.GB2098@rakim.wolfsonmicro.main>
2010-05-14 17:39 ` [PATCH 0/8] Suspend block api (version 6) Paul Walmsley
[not found] ` <201005032318.35383.rjw@sisk.pl>
2010-05-14 20:02 ` Paul Walmsley
[not found] ` <87sk68r1zh.fsf@deeprootsystems.com>
[not found] ` <s2qd6200be21005031709r28420f0ezf3cf286517ee9114@mail.gmail.com>
2010-05-14 20:27 ` Paul Walmsley
2010-05-14 22:18 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-15 2:25 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-15 4:02 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-15 21:25 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-17 4:54 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-18 2:26 ` Paul Walmsley
2010-05-18 3:21 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-18 7:03 ` Henrik Rydberg
2010-05-18 19:39 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-25 9:41 ` Paul Walmsley
2010-05-25 23:08 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-26 7:23 ` Linus WALLEIJ
2010-05-26 16:01 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-27 7:46 ` Linus WALLEIJ
2010-05-27 8:04 ` Florian Mickler
2010-05-27 8:40 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-27 15:33 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-28 11:54 ` Linus WALLEIJ
2010-05-20 23:37 ` David Brownell
2010-05-25 16:51 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2010-05-25 18:25 ` Alan Stern
2010-05-25 18:33 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2010-05-25 22:05 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-25 22:28 ` Dmitry Torokhov
[not found] ` <20100504004338.GA22678@srcf.ucam.org>
2010-05-14 20:36 ` Paul Walmsley
[not found] ` <20100503215028.GB18910@srcf.ucam.org>
2010-05-14 20:20 ` Paul Walmsley
2010-05-14 20:32 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-14 22:32 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-14 22:37 ` Arve Hjønnevåg
2010-05-15 19:47 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-15 19:55 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-15 23:51 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-16 0:31 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-14 23:15 ` tytso
2010-05-15 19:52 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-16 19:01 ` Mark Brown
2010-05-18 1:39 ` Paul Walmsley
2010-05-18 1:55 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-19 16:17 ` Paul Walmsley
2010-05-19 16:25 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-21 16:51 ` Paul Walmsley
2010-05-21 17:01 ` Paul Walmsley
2010-05-21 17:09 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-17 16:12 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-17 19:27 ` Vitaly Wool
2010-05-17 19:34 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-17 19:50 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-17 20:00 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-17 20:02 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-17 20:53 ` Linus WALLEIJ
2010-05-17 21:06 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-17 21:16 ` Linus WALLEIJ
2010-05-17 21:24 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-17 21:29 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-17 21:35 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-17 21:39 ` Daniel Walker
2010-05-17 21:27 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-17 21:34 ` Matthew Garrett
2010-05-17 22:56 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-17 21:36 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-18 2:40 ` tytso
2010-05-17 20:07 ` [linux-pm] " Mike Chan
2010-05-17 20:17 ` Vitaly Wool
2010-05-17 21:04 ` Mike Chan
2010-05-17 22:55 ` Kevin Hilman
2010-05-17 23:04 ` Brian Swetland
2010-05-17 20:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2010-05-30 12:21 ` tytso
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