From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Felipe Contreras Subject: Re: [linux-pm] [PATCH 0/8] Suspend block api (version 8) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 20:30:40 +0300 Message-ID: References: <201005302202.39511.rjw@sisk.pl> <201005312347.24251.rjw@sisk.pl> <1275471561.27810.30865.camel@twins> <1275474088.27810.31000.camel@twins> <20100602221309.6da754e7@schatten.dmk.lab> <1275550802.27810.34863.camel@twins> <20100603161205.73a2b56d@schatten.dmk.lab> <1275578881.27810.35995.camel@twins> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Return-path: In-Reply-To: <1275578881.27810.35995.camel@twins> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org To: Peter Zijlstra Cc: Florian Mickler , =?UTF-8?B?QXJ2ZSBIasO4bm5ldsOlZw==?= , Thomas Gleixner , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Matthew Garrett , Alan Stern , Paul@smtp1.linux-foundation.org, LKML , felipe.balbi@nokia.com, Linux OMAP Mailing List , Linux PM , Alan Cox List-Id: linux-omap@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > On Thu, 2010-06-03 at 16:12 +0200, Florian Mickler wrote: >> On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 09:40:02 +0200 >> Peter Zijlstra wrote: >> >> > Same for firefox, you can teach it to not render animated gifs and run >> > javascript for invisible tabs, and once the screen-saver kicks in, >> > nothing is visible (and with X telling apps their window is visible or >> > not it knows), so it should go idle all of its own. >> > >> > Fix the friggin apps, don't kludge with freezing. >> >> Of course programs should be as smart as possible. But that is an >> orthogonal problem. >> >> Suppose firefox were fixed. It still needs to fetch my rss feeds every >> minute, because I'm sad if it doesn't. It just can't be fixed at the >> application level. > > Sure it can, why would it need to fetch RSS feeds when the screen is off > and nobody could possible see the result? So you can stop the timer when > you know the window isn't visible or alternatively when the screensaver > is active, I think most desktops have notification of that as well. Exactly, and that's what applications in the N900 do. For this to work reliably, you need these notifications (network disconnected, screen off) to be easily accessible, and even transparent to the application writer. I don't think the suspend blockers solve much. A bad application will behave bad on any system. Suppose somebody decides to port Firefox to Android, and forgets to listen to the screen off event (bad on Android or Maemo), however, notices the application behaves very badly, so by googling finds these suspend blockers, and enables them all the time the application runs. When the user install the application, will be greeted by a warning "This application might break PM, do you want to enable suspend blockers?" (or whatever), as any typical user would do, will press Yes (whatever). We end up in exactly the same situation. -- Felipe Contreras